If you are a WOHM, are you discriminated against at your child's primary school?

[Eleusis]

I generally feel out of touch at DD's primary school. So, I sent an e-mail to the parents and invited everyone out for drinks and a meal. 2 people showed up. And during the course of conversation I realised that we are the only mums (out of 26) who work full time, and hence never show up at the school gate. The other two had a few stories of how the school actually frowns at them. For example they are offered 3:00pm time slots for parent-teacher conferences and just expected to be available, etc.

I haven't realised the extent of the SAHM vs WOHM war zone... and I am rather pissed off about it. I think it is outrageous for the school to treat parents this way. I did know that these feelings are alive and well at the school gate. But, I am very surprised about the teachers' attitudes.

Is this common? Do other WOHMs have these experiences at your kids' schools? If so, how have you dealt with it? Are private schools the same?

Of course, not all SAHMs are unwelcoming towards the WOHMs. But, I so did not expect the stories I heard on Friday night.

Eleusis - what kind of information is not being communicated to parents?

I am a WOHM and only do pick up's from my DS's school on Friday's. His school is really good at keeping all parents in the loop. When he was in reception I had expressed an interest in helping out with a school trip and his class teacher called me at work to say that they were thinking of a trip on x date and would I be able to/want to take time off to help. She had called to give me as much notice as possible before letters were issued. We recently had a problem as DS now in year 2 goes to before and after school care and often forgets things before he gets home. I spoke to the head and he now has a little notebook to write down things he needs to remember or for the teachers to pass on anything they want to tell me.

I am a member of the PTA and we have meetings alternately evenings and after school so that everyone has a chance to attend.

I'm absolutely sure there is discrimination, but its thoughtlessness rather than maliciousness. Pre Easter DS3's school had a "Come in to the Hall at 2pm and make and Easter Bonnet with your child" session - there was then a competition for the best hat. I am (now) a SAHM, so went along and it was great - but all I could think about was the kids still sat in their classrooms because their parents were at work (which would have been the case with my older 3). It's not fair on the kids, and it's not fair on the working parents - in my case at least I felt permanently guilty for missing so much stuff.

Hello Eleusis.

My main bugbear is the scramble for signing up for after-school clubs. If you're not at the school office with cheque book in hand as soon as the class is released with the sign-up sheets in their bookbags, you're not going to get your child into any of the clubs they want to join.

MY MIL often picks up for us and so we don't see the bookbags until later in the evening.

Here in France all the children have a day book which they and the teacher and the parents write in with notes. And all parents have to sign their children's exercise books regularly to prove that they have seen the children's work.

Hassled, I think the meanness there is not calling it "help make easter bonnets with the children" and including the whole class.

Hassled - Wow. That sounds terrible. Why can't they include all the children and ask for parent helpers?

I have every sympathy with teachers who (in my experience) are underpaid, overworked and underappreciated in nearly every country in the world. So I don't think the onus should be on them to communicate with parents above and beyond during their normal working hours - and if they do, they are saints. I feel that school is (or should be), primarily, a service to parents in helping them bring up their children and parents have to make room in their schedule (whatever it may be) to keep in touch with their child's activities at school. And I think it's a good thing if communication passes directly through the child, whether in a day book, by word of mouth or on paper, as children ought to be fully informed of the communication between school and parent - it's their life.

Hiya Bubble!

We have that problem too with the nursery p-t conf sign up. We are in afternoon. It goes up for morning nursery first so the pickin's are slim by the time the afternoon kids get to the school gate. But, it hasn't really been a problem.

Well, one thing I haven't gotten is a sheet of paper that said they are considering changing the time when kids go full time in reception (it will affect my DD because she would go in Jan instead of the following April). She was sick the day it was handed out. I only know about it because my nanny told me what people were talking about at the school gate. It so happens I am for this change and so is the majority, so it should be fine. But, what else haven't I seen? Well, I obviously can't tell you what I don't know I don't know.

I agree with you Anna.

Hassled - I would not have been able to go into school with the Easter bonnet activity either. As I am a sahm with younger children as are some of the other parents. So as I've said before it's not just wohm who are affected by these things. I do think your school was out of order for not including all children in the class in the activity though.

Anna, my DD can't read. She does not benefit in any way from paper communication. What about the trees? And the additional rubbish we are all handing to the bin men? Also, if it came on e-mail, I could forward it to nanny, husband, etc. and it would aid communication.

The truth is my evening is too short, there is not enough time to see my kids and I don't like spending it telling them to be quiet because I am busy reading something from school. Okay, it's not much time to read a newsletter, but every little bit of time I can spend with them counts.

Oh, and Anna, I agree that it is probably not the teachers job to creat the website, etc. I would expect a school -- just like any other business - to have some kind of IT/admin position who does this.

Eleusis - even a three-year old can have a little bag with a day book in, which the teacher can write notes in (or staple in a circular) and the parents write back - it doesn't need to be an essay. And the children can put pictures in it and get used to having a diary, dates etc and when they learn to read and write they are already accustomed to the idea. I really like that system, and I think it induces good habits with very little work involved for either parents or teachers.

I am not worried about one day book per year in the big scheme of all the rubbish out there.

Schools are short staffed. That much you can be sure of.

And schools aren't a business despite government's attempts to make them so.

Eleusis - that's a good point about having an IT/admin person.

Schools aren't generally businesses - they are either state institutions, paid out of tax, or charities. So they don't have any incentive to add costs because they those costs don't generate extra income.

Hassled, you don't use my DD's nursery, do you?

We had exactly the same thing, but as it is a day nursery/childcare facility I failed to understand who would be able to attend, as all the children are there (surely) because their parents are at work? Not so, it seems. I managed to make it to the Easter Bonnet service where the bonnets were paraded and most of them were works of art. My poor little DD and a couple of others had obviously had to make their own with minimum assistance from staff and they really stuck out as the children 'whose mummies didn't help them'

I think it is the way in which schools expect so much involvement from parents that is the discriminatory factor. DD1 has recently moved to a new school building. The move was executed during the easter holiday, and consequently school broke up a week early to accommodate the move. DD1 came home with a study pack to do during that week. The French section alone was 8 hours of supervised work! She had enough work to fill every one of the school days she was missing and somehow I was expected to assist in the role of 'teacher'. I have a paid job, a home and a family to run. I can't sit down with her for 5 or so hours a day and help with all this work, and to expect me to do so is discriminatory in itself.

Why isn't the nanny sorting out the newsletters? Is she asking whether there are any? Is she asking your dd if she has collected everything before they leave the school? Does she speak to any of the teaching staff? She has as much chance as getting notes/newsletters/info as the sahp. Perhaps she should write up a report for you. If you have no time to read a newsletter how do you find time to read an email and forward it on? I really have lost what it is you are after?
As Anna has said can't you arrange your day so that one parent drops off and one collects at least one day a week? or something like that?
Perhaps you could suggest to the school a questionnaire asking how the majority of parents would like information passing to them.
Schools find it difficult to fund the resources that they need now without taking on I.T. professionals to run websites etc. I would prefer the money spent on teachers and classroom resources to help my child not on extra I.T. staff because a parent is inconvenienced because they missed a newsletter.
Sorry but you seem to want the school to drop everything to accommodate your way of doing things.

They are like businesses in the sense that they have a defined budget and must run on the means they have available. They have a clear fu=ocus and a job to do -- educate the kids. Parents of course also have a role in this education.

Anna, I think the book idea is really good, but I also think it will make more work for teachers. I would be really glad to participate in such a system. Incidentally, my nephew's school in Chicago does this too.

I think it would be an excellent idea to have each school have an IT /admin person. I also think that it is highly unlikly that it will happen in the immediate future.

We have a dedicated IT person where I wrik, but this is for a school of 1300 children with over 100 teaching/ teaching auxiliary staff.

We do have a website, which is updated regulary.

I think getting this sort of cover in Primary schools would be prohibitivly expensive. As it is my collegues in Primary often forgoe their Non Contact Time, as schools may not have the cash for the cover required.

I also know that funding for things like SEN is horrifically low.

While IT suport is vital, and having someone in the school would be a boon to any school I do feel that there are more important priorities to sort first.

And while I sympathise with you for not wanting to deal with school paperwork at the end of a working day, because I feel much the same myself, I do feel that this is the general downside of being a WOHM. THis is, sadly, the negative part of the choice that we have both made. And that isb't the fault of the school as such, but rather society as a whole. And while we have this negative, SAHM have other negatives to deal with (I've been a SAHM in the past as well)

This breaking up early business is a nightmare and it ought not to be allowed in the same way as taking children out of school for holidays is so frowned upon.

We learnt last week that my elder stepson is going to break up for the summer holidays a full two weeks ahead of the scheduled date. Of course, that is long before any summer camps or activities start, so that means two weeks to fill. His mother will be working, as will my partner. Luckily, this year my daughter is not yet at school so I shall take both children to England to see my parents and my stepson can do some extra English, so it won't be time wasted. But I don't know what will happen if this happens another year, or what other parents do to cope.

Juule,
I can not do the drop off or the pick up. Neither can DH.

I'm not actually seeking investment the school hasn't already made. I have toured the school and they have some impressive IT kit hanging about. They use it to teach ICT, but they don't really implement it elsewehere. The most recent Ofsted report notes this as as something which needs improving. I'm just talking about being a bit more organised.

Nanny does organise the newsletters. But, sometimes they are handed out late. Again, a lack of organization.

Besides, it is rather difficult to lose a website. If the information was held there, everyone would always know where to fond it, day or night, from work or home.

Anna, I think your stepson is very lucky to have you.

At my dd's school, I see the CM's stowing away homework, newsletters, pe kits, activities, party invitations, whatever is being sent out of school into the children's bags. I've no doubt that whatever is sent out is sorted and passed on to the parents. Important communications (like forms to apply for school places) are handed to the parents/guardians only by the school secretary or posted first class that night. My mum only just managed to blag my dd's form given out in nursery to apply for her school place when she was able to prove that she was my parent and thus acting in loco parentis to my dd!! It would have been posted out otherwise - which is absurd as we live 5 mins walk from the school.

Loads of school websites are not maintained on a regular basis simply as they do not usually have the resources to pay someone to do it or the time to do it themselves.

Appointments are posted up on the door and they usually run all day starting at 8.30am. So far, I've never failed to get an early one when I've been working so I've fulfilled both of my commitments - attend the appointment then hoof off to work. If not, my parents would go in my stead or I'd work something else out. As for talking to other parents, it's not something that I do or find essential but that's me. I am quite happy to just collect dd from school and go home without small talk.

GOH - that's a very kind thing to say