If you are a WOHM, are you discriminated against at your child's primary school?

[Eleusis]

I generally feel out of touch at DD's primary school. So, I sent an e-mail to the parents and invited everyone out for drinks and a meal. 2 people showed up. And during the course of conversation I realised that we are the only mums (out of 26) who work full time, and hence never show up at the school gate. The other two had a few stories of how the school actually frowns at them. For example they are offered 3:00pm time slots for parent-teacher conferences and just expected to be available, etc.

I haven't realised the extent of the SAHM vs WOHM war zone... and I am rather pissed off about it. I think it is outrageous for the school to treat parents this way. I did know that these feelings are alive and well at the school gate. But, I am very surprised about the teachers' attitudes.

Is this common? Do other WOHMs have these experiences at your kids' schools? If so, how have you dealt with it? Are private schools the same?

Of course, not all SAHMs are unwelcoming towards the WOHMs. But, I so did not expect the stories I heard on Friday night.

So what you are saying is that any interested parent who cannot help out in school on a regular basis should be given priority for trips out? I don't think that would go down too well with the parents who do the routine stuff to miss out (as some would see it) on the trips (though some might be glad to). Maybe a fairer system would be to have a list of willing parents and work through it. Although someone is going to be left out as there are not likely to be enough trips out for every parent to take a turn. I'm not sure there is anything that would work for everyone. So, wohm and sahm with other commitments possibly have to accept that probably there isn't much they can get involved with and just keep letting the school know they would like to be notified if something came up just in case they might be able to attend that time.

Committed parents who regularly give time to the school should obviously not be sidelined for fun one-off trips that are convenient for parents who can't make a regular commitment.

I think that WOH parents (of which I will undoubtedly be one myself in due course) are naturally less involved in school life than SAHMs. That's just a part of the deal when you choose to be a WOHM.

I have a suspicion that the first parents who are chosen to help with trips at our school are those whose children have more challenging behaviour!

I guess the other communication issue not yet addressed on this thread (I think!) is where the parents don't speak English? I don't think that we have any in our class (though we have almost half where English is not spoken at home), but presumably some schools do have this challenge?

I'm a SAHM with 3 children ; 2 at a private school and 1 at a state school. I am shocked at the difference in attitude between the state and independent sector and would really struggle to be in full time work and have a child at a state school.

The state school has inset days and a lot of other days where there is no school with very little advance notice given (the private school has no such thing). Over the winter, 4 times the heating broke down at the state school with school cancelled at 9.00am. When the same thing happened at the private school, they drafted in fan heaters and told everyone to wear a jumper.

At the state school, school starts at 9.00am and the doors don't open one minute before. At the privatee school, while school also starts at 9.00am, you can drop off from 8.30pm onwards while after school clubs are on offer every day until 6.00pm together with full holiday clubs (nothing at all at the state school).

I don't know if this is typical of the state sector but it seems to me that scant regard is paid to the commitments of working parents.

I don't think that one off school events are the always the fun ones - and IME school trips can be hard work if you are there as a helper.

I well remember traipsing round Greenwich Park in the drizzle when my son was in year 1. The day was packed with all sorts of educational stop offs - too many IMO as everyone got very tired. Not exactly my idea of a fun day, but very worthwhile.

Worthwhile because it gave me a rare glimpse of how my son actually got on with his classmates and let me get to know them all little better, so when ds tells me about 'x' boy or 'y' girl, I have a bit more insight.

This is such a good thing to know, IMO and it's something no parents evening can convey.

Parents who have the time to regularly help in school must get some really good insights out of it. I just think it's nice for parents who are just as interested in the school day, but whose time is more limited are positively encouraged to join in when they can.

cd, may be true. I certainly feel I pay for a lot of that stuff and of course you tend to have good ITC departments in private primaries and dedicated IT staff too so easier to do the email communications. Private schools don't have inset days or days when they're closed usually as parents are paying etc. although the terms are shorter and the teachers come in before term starts for a day or two for I suppose inset type things.

I've never really felt not in touch with school things. One thing you do notice though is a big difference betwen primary and secondy which is quite sad - suddenly you're less a part of their school as well as general life as both more a sense of separation from the school, rightly but a shame and the children too sort of go out into their own peer group etc All the more reason to have more babies once you have teenagers.

Good point on language issues. I suppose the children can read stuff aloud to parents who can't speak English and there may be a case to translate some of it in some schools.

Yes, there was a huge difference between our primary and my ds1's secondary school.

All those years of primary school, you have the chance to help in the classroom, go on school trips, attend assemblies and sports days - and that's not counting the PTA easter fairs, christmas extravaganza etc. Some parents seem to be at the school almost as much as their children.

There is a PTA at my son's secondary school but nothing like as many social events and occasions to meet the other children in his year. No parent assemblies, no school trips to go on, no helping in the classroom. This seems to be the norm at secondary school.

So, now I have only one son at primary school, I value the times I see him with his classmates as I know it will pass all too soon.

I work full-time in a junior school as an ICT support manager, and I know that it is very unusual to have a job like this in a primary school - mostly the IT support is a few hours a week by a TA who's doing interventions & classroom support the rest of the time.
I make sure that all the newsletters go on the website and that they are emailed to those who prefer that, and we also have lots of general infomation on things like dates, uniform, school meals, events etc. We also keep copies of all the newsletters, info on clubs, music lessons etc, so anyone who's missed one can come & get a copy.
We probably have about a 50/50 split of WOHMS/SAHMS and try to make sure WOHMS don't get left out, but it is difficult to arrange lots of events involving children outside school hours.
Also on the school trip thing - if your authority is one whose policy is to get parents CRB checked (not all do) the parents who regularly help may already have this in place, and it wouldn't be worth going through the process for someone who might only go on one trip.

I enjoy helping out on school trips since my working pattern is periperatic at best (I am an on-off temp ie I work when I feel like it ) and I won't commit to reading in school since there are lots of occasions when I would have to let the school down if I happen to be working. The school trips are my way of making up for not being there more often. The first trip I had the charge of a boy who was scared of everything - and I mean everything that flies from eagles down to.... well flies. Suffice it to say that this trip to a zoo was challenging for me balancing this child's needs with my dd's needs. She loves animals. It's not an easy day out by any means and I personally find them truncuated compared to an outing I'd throw for my dd but they are a very good way to get to know the other children. I don't think that they should be reserved solely for WOHM or SAHMs by any means. In my admittely fairly limited experience, it seems to be the same dozen or so parents who step forward to volunteer for this sort of tasks anyway.

We're in Germany Eleusis and, like Anna8888 in France, our dc have little homework books. They draw a line, write the date under it and their homework for the day. So dp automatically check the homework book to see what needs to be done. The dc also occasionally copy messages from the board into their book: Wednesday school trip to ..., 5 Euro, bus ticket, backpack. That kind of thing. Any notes from the school are folded in half and slipped in the book.

I don't think it's too much for the teacher to hand around a piece of paper and say, ok everyone fold it in half and put in your homework book. Maybe if your dc had a special envelope or something always in her bag, you could say, any notes, letters for mummy go in here and she might lose less things that way?

My DD has just turned 4 and is now in the nursery attached to her primary. She will enter reception there in Sept. So, she doesn't have homework yet. And, she isn't really old enough to be held responsible for the notes which are handed out.

I still think it's prehistoric not to have a website and e-mail in place. And,I'm not really convinced of the argument that schools don't have the budget because I think they would save on costs if they got away from the paper world.

Perhaps they should raise the maintenance fee which we already have to pay? I'd certainly be willing to contribute if it meant improved communication to all parents.

Anyway, I think I managed to get myself on the mailing list for minutes from PTA meeting yesterday. So, I'm making progress. And I do think it's at least partly my responsibility to be a bit more proative; and this thread has helped me see that. So that's what I'm doing.

didn't realise she was so small Eleusis

Im a stay at home mum and I chat to everyone in the playground. I do feel for parents who work because it must be so hard to juggle everything......I find it hard and I have the time. Despite having time to chat in the playground and being very outgoing I am not in any group. I dont think the feeling of being looked down up necessarily comes from whether you work or not, it just depends on the actual people themselves. In our playground there are some groups who know ....probably spread....all the gossip about staff, pupils and parents. I must walk around with my head in the sand because sometimes when Im told about stuff I wonder where was I when all this was going on. One of my friends is a governer to the school....I often check out stuff with her that I hear and then realise its all rubbish. I think its outrageous if schools make life hard for working parents but dont blame not being in the playground for not knowing whats going on, in fact sometimes its best not to know and to just concentrate on your own child and that they are happy.

Wise words Pepsi. I think there's a lot to be said for an element of healthy detachment.

Eleusis - at my dd's nursery (which is attached to her current school) the staff put the newsletters etc in the children's book bags for them. Perhaps it hasn't occurred to the staff this would make life easier for everyone?