If you are a WOHM, are you discriminated against at your child's primary school?

[Eleusis]

I generally feel out of touch at DD's primary school. So, I sent an e-mail to the parents and invited everyone out for drinks and a meal. 2 people showed up. And during the course of conversation I realised that we are the only mums (out of 26) who work full time, and hence never show up at the school gate. The other two had a few stories of how the school actually frowns at them. For example they are offered 3:00pm time slots for parent-teacher conferences and just expected to be available, etc.

I haven't realised the extent of the SAHM vs WOHM war zone... and I am rather pissed off about it. I think it is outrageous for the school to treat parents this way. I did know that these feelings are alive and well at the school gate. But, I am very surprised about the teachers' attitudes.

Is this common? Do other WOHMs have these experiences at your kids' schools? If so, how have you dealt with it? Are private schools the same?

Of course, not all SAHMs are unwelcoming towards the WOHMs. But, I so did not expect the stories I heard on Friday night.

I don't know ,Eleusis, I started off as fulltime WOHM then was on mat leave and am now parttime WOHM. I think the problem is if you are never at the school gates the other parents don't know you so perhaps would feel awkward about going out for drinks with you? Our school is reasonably accommodating about parent conference times for working parents. I don't detect any anti-WOHM feeling amongst the parents I have now got to know - many many are at least parttime WOHMS (or Dads)..

This is certainly not the case at my dc's school. I would guess that most of the parents are WOHM. Parents are asked to request a time that suits them for parents evening, then it's fisrt come first served. AS a SAHM and earlier appt would actually suit me as I would just wait at the school after collecting the kids, leaving the later appts free for the WOHMs

Sorry, I don't understand your comments about parent-teacher time slots. At our school all the appointments are directly after school and DH has to leave early to make the meeting. Why would you think this is deliberate discrimination against working mothers?

I have so far had one letter from Dd's school (she is starting in September) which I received two days ago

It has given me 5 times that one parent needs to be at school with her in June - FIVE TIMES! - ("I'm sorry we cannot accomodate your younger children")

So I have six weeks notice to find childcare for younger sibling and/or negotiate time off work for those days I am working

So I can imagine that if I am feeling like this after ONE letter I can sympathise with you

I don't understand why we couldn't have had this information months ago and why it is so inflexible at such short notice

Our school are brilliant about parents evening slots, they will accomodate where ever possible and even see parents on another day if they cant make the set evening.(we always have 2 days anyway, one from 3-5.30 and one from 5-8 to try to suit everyone.)

Krabbie, there is definately an element of out of sight out of mind. But, the other other two women were telling stories about the teachers'attitudes. And I find that inexcusable.

The reason not many people showed up is because the class reps (both SAHM) didn't spread the word at the school gate... don't know why, couldn't be bothered I guess.

I'm pondering trying to become a class rep. Or maybe I'll go along to the next PTA meeting (which I think are in the evening).

i have a problem with our pre-school class, they have introduced a 'parent-rota' to keep the ratios of adults right, but i pay the fees and the kids are there 5 days a week (thats two kids, 20 sessions and 10 lunch clubs between them) the rota they have drawn up is for the parent to do the weekly amount of sessions in rota sessions per term! thats two solid weeks of rota sessions for me!!

i work 6 days a week self-employed and they aren't being at all flexible!

I am a sahm, the only time I get cross with working mums is when they are late picking their chidren up or in the morning when they disrupt the already started class because they are late coming in.

Other than than I dont really notice you, cos you are never there and rushing off to get to work.

Thing is, in the playground you build a rapport with other parents through chatter and then you invite them for a coffee and so on.

I think you were very kind to invite all but not all folk are comfy with just turning up to a house not knowing that person very well.

Hope things improve, try to hang about at the pick up and chat a while, you will see things change.

That sounds like a good idea, Eleusis - I didn't realise how out of touch I was until went on mat leave. If I end up fulltime again, will definitely have to think of creative ways of keeping in the loop.

"Sorry, I don't understand your comments about parent-teacher time slots. At our school all the appointments are directly after school and DH has to leave early to make the meeting. Why would you think this is deliberate discrimination against working mothers?"

Good point, Chippy. Sorry, I guess I meant WOHPs. It is just as inconveninet for Dads of course.

I'm not at this point yet but was talking to a SAHM the other day who is very active on the P&T committee.

She was saying that she was fed-up of complaints from WOHM mums who kept asking for the newsletters, info etc section of the schools website to be updated more regularly as this was one of the few ways they had to keep in touch with what was happening at the school.

Her view was that mothers/parents who 'couldn't be bothered' (her words) to arrange to personally drop off and collect their children from school most days (she was very specific that it was needed 'most' days' not just 1 or 2 days a week) couldn't complain when they were out of the loop. Most info at her school was posted in notices at the door and some as letters home and as she commented, the school had no plan to change this. They sometimes updated the website but it was most definitely not a priority.

Her view was that WOHM were neglecting their pareting responsibilities. I was pretty as this was my first encounter with someone in RL who is so stongly on one side of the SAHM/WOHM debate.

I work and it is harder to maintain a relationship with (a) school and (b) other parents because I only get to pick up from school at 3pm once a week. However, I would not say I am discriminated against. I accept that parents who volunteer to help in school during the week are going to have a better idea of what goes on and a closer relationship to the teachers, that is what I sacrifice by working, but there are advantages to working too and I have chosen to work so I cannot complain. I volunteer to help at grounds days that take place on Saturdays once a term and have found that is a good way to get to know other parents and teachers, and to show willing. Clearly the SAHM will know eachother better socially because they have more opportunities to see eachother and it would be easy to perceive ?them? as ?cliquey?. I am unlikely to make good friends at the school gate but that is because I am rarely there and that is my choice. I am on good terms with the SAHM and being able to smile and exchange a little school gossip is enough

I dont like the PTA as equally these tend to get cliquey. Naturally if you are up the pub once a week/month with the same faces it will happen.

I prefer to give my time to the school in other ways, helping with school trips and reading with kids in the classroom. That definately keeps you in the loop without the playground bitching.

Tena, I can't possibly hang out at pick up. I don't pick up. I don't drop off. And that is not likely to change.

The meet up was at a local pub. And I do know some of the mums. It is a church school, and I know some of them from church.

But, really what I'm upset about is that teachers have these attitudes.

I think I must find a way to get more involved outside of work hours. When I'm going to do that I do not know. But, I suppose I must find a way.

In our class (year 1) there are to my knowledge only 2 WOHM. IME it would be very difficult to juggle working full-time around this particular school. Those who do (older dc etc) really rely on grandparents' help.

I didn't have the impression that WOHMs are discriminated against really although TBH some of the more strident type of SAHMs definitely DO disapprove of mothers who go out to work and say so quite openly. I think this may be partly cultural though since we live in Germany.

I/m a WOHM and definitely in the minority at DD's private primary. However I don't feel excluded or disadvantaged. I make an effort to get to the school gates about once every 3 weeks at least but have found that through hanging around at parties, social events (e.g. trips to the zoo in the holidays) and so on I feel "in the loop".

As far as assemblies, parent-teacher meetings are concerned, our school sends out the dates for the following academic year in early July on a laminated calendar. June is a tough month as DH and I work in HE and this is our busiest time. Nevertheless we plan things so at least one of us is there for each event. Given that they tell us the dates and times so far in advance I don't think it is unreasonable of the school to expect at least one parent to be there for big events. I know that if neither parent can make the allotted slot for a parent-teacher meeting the School will arrange another time but there is no way this would be after 6 pm (the teachers have kids and partners who work too!). I suspect that the level of advance warning is unusual though.

Eleusis (i am a SAHM btw, but will be joining the workforce again in a year or so)
Curious as to what it is your friends are finding in the teachers attitude towards them? Presumably a lot of the teachers are WOHMs themselves.

yes I was wondering too what you meant with teachers' attitudes. Is it just about giving appointments at inconvenient times? That could probably be altered relatively easily, don't you think?

just be a little bit careful of prejudging the teachers - I assume you are basing your views on what you have heard but remember there are two sides to every story.

I speak as a fulltime WOHM who has never done school drop off or pick up on a regular basis and consequently is completely out of the playground chat. It is hard, particularly at the school events I do go to (sports day, school fair etc) because I do feel like an outsider in a group of close friends. However, this is inevitable - they know each other well and don't know me. It was my choice to work so I must live with this consequence.

What I recommend you do is identify someone else in your position and make friends with them so that you will always have someone to talk to - you seem to have found 2 already.

As far as the teachers are concerned, I would send a note into your dd's class teacher asking for an opportunity to have a chat with her and arrange to go in to work late one morning if you can. I've found that once the teachers know your absence from the playground is not lack of caring they are really accommodating.

I also think getting involved with the PTA is a good idea. I couldn't face it but fortunately my husband could so we built links with the school community that way.

Schools operate differently to work - plans are made at relatively short notice and there is an assumption that everyone (SAHM and WOHM) has complete flexibility. This seems to be a fact of life and, actually, if you think of the logistical challenges facing schools it probably is inevitable. The trick is to not get too upset about it and continue to treat the head and teachers well - they will appreciate it. Remember you have 7 years of this relationship with one child (and rather more with more). It's worth making it work.

I work p/t and am definatly in the minority at school (majority are SAHM) and have missed out of nights out/get togethers because I haven't got as friendly with people BUT in dd2s class this doesn't seem as obvious and am frinedly with many more people though it actually seems more like it is the group rather than the situation IYSWIM

School wise we usually get (at most) a weeks notice of class assemblies/activities and therefore I miss a lot because I can't swap days at short notice.The PTA is on a Fri pm in school time as are all the fetes etc and as I work Fridays I can't go and help.

My Mam and Dad have both started helping in the school though so at least I find things out that way.

Okay, I think perhaps the way forward is to advertise the next nursery parents meet up in the church newletter. And, my nanny offered to pass out an invite at the school gate. As there are two nursery sessions (an afternoon class and a morning class), I thinkI'll try and invite everyone since all of the kids will be in one reception class next year.

So basically, I think perhaps my best approach is to go in throught the church angle.

My DS is in Reception and was in nursery at the same school last year. I'm not sure of the number of WOHMs in his class - maybe 30-40%? Certainly haven't noticed any warzone out there. Children who DS plays with after school are both those who have nannies and who have SAHMs

Re the school: parent's evening slots are on 2 days from 3pm to 8pm, so DH and I tend to leave a bit early from work and bag a 6.30/7pm slot - these seem to be quite popular becaus a lots of fathers also want to attend but we have had no problem with this - you are asked to list 3 preferences and we have always had our first or second. They will accomodate you outside of this, if necessary.

Weekly newsletter plus they are very hot on email. It is a private school so they are very "client focussed" - and accept quite readily that parents work. Anything like "reading talks" are in the evening. Teacher will also make appointment to see you before school if there are any concerns.

I am class rep, so meet ups tend to happen at a time which is convenient to me . We have met up for coffee a couple of times, plus a couple of evenings in the pub (specifically requested by a couple of SAHMs their husbands could also come along).

It was a conscious decision by me to be class rep as a way of making sure I didn't lose touch with what was going on in the class. In any event, it largely involves sending out emails and updating lists, which is pretty easy if you are sitting at a desk all day. PTA meetings are 7.30pm - so can be done after work - and wine is served (y-a-a-a-y!)

Would be VERY surprised if anyone was making any comments one way or the other.

Quite a nice thing which has developed recently is that when any child has a party - about 20 in class - the parents have sent round an email suggesting parents come and have a glass of wine at pick up time so everyone tends to catch up then.

I'm a full-time WOHM with a daughter in Y1 and don't feel discriminated against as such. The school will organise parent-teacher meetings in the evenings and even fit them around my business trips. I do miss information posted up at school, but it is generally stuff (reminders of cake sales, last minute changes to the agenda of the PTA meetings) that I'm happy to live without and most of it is replicated at some point in a newsletter.

Of course I don't know the SAHMs very well and I wouldn't expect to, but they smile and nod and generally will chat to me if I make the first move. It is no coincidence though that I know the two other WOHMs in the class very well and have a strong and immediate bond with them.

The funniest piece of mild discrimination was when I took two weeks off last year during term-time whilst my nanny was on holiday and the SAHMs expressed shock at how well I coped. I think there may have been a sub-conscious desire for me to fail abjectly.

Oh, hello Anchovy!

"Quite a nice thing which has developed recently is that when any child has a party - about 20 in class - the parents have sent round an email suggesting parents come and have a glass of wine at pick up time so everyone tends to catch up then. "

What a great idea!