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Original poster

Eton caught cheating on Pre-U

232 replies

BossWitch · 26/08/2017 08:22

Saw this on bbc's papers round up but can only find a full story link in the Fail, sorry.

www.google.co.uk/amp/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4824050/amp/Eton-deputy-head-quits-amid-claims-helped-pupils-cheat.html

Basically, a deputy head who was a senior examiner and involved in setting the exam leaked the exam materials to staff and students for one of the economics papers for the Cambridge Pre-U so all those marks have been disregarded. Deputy head has now left the school.

I'm quite shocked. What on earth was he thinking? And how much pressure must he have been under to ensure results that he thought this was a good idea?

Any Eton parents about on mumsnet today? What are your thoughts?

OP posts:
sendsummer · 30/08/2017 22:38

I feel that it undermines the integrity / authenticity of my middle class educated kids' results if everyone of the same innate ability did not have the same chance.
How we differ Testtube is that I recognise and accept that our DCs have most of their advantage from being brought up in a MC highly educated family as well as the advantage of innate ability. The former will always be unfair and likely outweighs any extra advantage given by school environment.

That is a separate matter to cheating exam rules.

Eusebius · 31/08/2017 07:32

And now Radley college has been added to the mess.
Cheating in Art What is going on?

2GandTplease · 31/08/2017 09:13

After a very quick read, that Radley issue does not seem to be on a similar level to Eton/Winchester (and all the other schools, state or private) mentioned on here and if you take their word at face value they've increased the number of invigilators voluntarily.

The exam boards have to look at their practices to ensure everyone has faith in the system, and we as a society have to realise that the stakes are now so high to get good grades, people from all walks of life are going to do things they shouldn't to gain advantage and to achieve them (whether it's cheating at one extreme, to intense tutoring). Why don't we have one exam board (genuine question - don't know if that is a potential solution).

The whole situation is a mess.

FrenchRoast · 31/08/2017 09:32

But it's surprising that Radley took such a slack approach to exams and the cheating member of staff was allowed to continue in role.

2GandTplease · 31/08/2017 09:38

No disagreement with that FranchRoast

FrenchRoast · 31/08/2017 09:59

It seems that the establishment don't really think the exam rules are for them - only really needed for the plebs.

2GandTplease · 31/08/2017 10:23

I don't necessarily agree with that as earlier on this thread there are plenty of examples of all types of schools breaking the rules- I think the pressure for top grades has changed the dynamic of education. The exam boards are all competing with each other to sign schools up for their exams - is the system broken ? Can it be trusted ?

FrenchRoast · 31/08/2017 10:28

That is the feeling I get from the way Radley have dealt with it.

MrsWobble3 · 31/08/2017 12:03

I think it is disingenuous of the schools to blame a single teacher and effectively exonerate the boys. They cheated - and they knew they were cheating. They had the exam questions in advance of the exam and knew it. How can that be considered ok by any standards?

1805 · 31/08/2017 13:33

FrenchRoast - Are you anti private schools by any chance?!
You seem to have mis-understood the Radley story.

Ta1kinPeece · 31/08/2017 15:53

Clavinova
Did the advert to which you refer predate the massive clampdown about five years ago after examiners were caught 'briefing' rooms full of teachers about the upcoming exams.

re the Art History paper
sorry but any and every boy at both schools who was involved in sharing information about the upcoming exam should be given a U in the whole subject.
They clearly have no ethics or morals.

annandale · 31/08/2017 21:29

They wouldn't necessarily know about the cheating. If they'd done lots of past papers type work it isn't surprising when a question you have practised comes up, though normally you would expect to see it in a different form. You're also focused on being about to write for three hours as the culmination of 2 years' work. If you found you knew three questions already, you might think 'Huh?' but it wouldn't be so different from your expectations that you would immediately stand up and say 'I've been given this before'. I think it would be asking a lot for them to report it tbh.

Ta1kinPeece · 31/08/2017 21:40

Winchester Boys (whose teacher wrote the exam) gave their mates at Eton the heads up .......

sendsummer · 31/08/2017 22:11

^every boy at both schools who was involved in sharing information about the upcoming exam should be given a U in the whole subject.
They clearly have no ethics or morals.^
TalkinPeace actually I think the fact that they shared any information on social media is more ethical than if they had tried to keep any potential advantage to themselves. It sounds as though they shared revisions questions just like any student study group would on social media. As we all know, these social networks are very extensive so I suspect that it was many more than the two schools you mention who would have heard about this.

I am not sure now with the information emerging that the boys thought that these were the actual exam questions rather than topics like those on past papers.
Since preU Art history is in the domain of private schools, this is not a private versus state debate. The relevant sections of the papers were discounted so there grades reflect the other work they did.
With regards Radley, that does n't seem any different to all the help I have heard of given to DCs in all sorts of schools for controlled assessments. Does n't make it acceptable but supplies more shades of grey than the press band wagon wants for a summer story

MrsWobble3 · 01/09/2017 08:37

If the boys thought the questions were no different to other practice questions why did they share them with friends at other schools in the way they did? These friends believed them (correctly as it turned out) to be the real thing.

sendsummer · 01/09/2017 09:16

MrsWobble3 you appear to know more facts than I do or are you interpreting what the press has reported? My DCs tell me that best guess questions and good practice questions are often shared on social network study groups. I imagine only a few students do Art History preU so it is not surprising that these boys at different schools know each other and shared any hints. I would be more worried re the school and them if they had not as that would suggest a more deliberate cheating process to gain advantage.

peteneras · 01/09/2017 13:22

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peteneras · 01/09/2017 13:30

”They genuinely seem horrified that such activities do exist, their innocence awe-inspiring . . .”

That was me four days ago and I think it’s high time you guys climb down from your high horses. Not that I’m condoning any cheatings of any sort but it’s time now for me to say I am horrified by the number of humbugs and hypocrites that’d surfaced here!

By the fact that you are present here at an educational forum suggests to me that you have kids who are at school or are closely involved in schools. Can you put your hand on the Bible or the Koran or whatever Holy Book that inspires you that your kids have never cheated in their GCSE’s and/or Lower Six AS’s in their ‘coursework’ nonsense by way of extra parental/tutor or other external help and guidance in their exams?

It’s blatantly obvious that those who are making a song and dance out of the recent Eton ‘cheating’ farce are anti private schools particularly anti Eton because they have a chip log on their shoulders that is bearing them down due to jealousy and their inadequacy to provide better for their offspring. They cannot seem to accept the fact that the Eton case was due to one and only one rogue teacher who’s new to the school and has been sacked summarily.

I do not see, or hear, a single murmur let alone a posting, of something far, far more serious of a cheating case involving a prestigious and world-famous medical school/university just two months prior to the Eton ‘scandal’, if you can call it that. Cheating that may mean life or death to anyone of you – potential medics who’s about to be let loose on your body both inside and out, will make Eton’s Economics and Art History farce the joke of the century!

Ceto · 01/09/2017 13:48

”Thousands of Eton's former pupils were killed in trenches and battlefields? I don't think so, somehow.”
You think what you like in a free country like this one, thanks to Etonian lives sacrificed perhaps. But ignorance in a modern free country is inexcusable - what with Google and what not – and you don’t seem to be able to read the link I had provided. I don’t suppose you know the Army is the biggest single employer of Old Etonians?

The fact remains that you have not pointed to any evidence demonstrating that Etonian battlefield/trench deaths go into thousands plural.

Your response rather selectively fails to deal with the issue that Eton recruited, promoted and kept for two years a teacher whom you describe as an idiot.

Ta1kinPeece · 01/09/2017 13:54

peterenas
we all know you think Eton is the best school in the whole wide world
but you are massively avoiding the point of the discussion.

Eton hired a guy who was the head examiner for a course
and then switched to doing that course
and then let him "coach" the boys
and only fired him when it hit the press

is that ever something to be proud of?

sendsummer
I utterly agree that this issue should not be used to bash fee paying schools
the problems are everywhere
but CIE seem to have weaker internal controls than the bigger exam boards - which is a genuine area of concern

MrsWobble3 · 01/09/2017 14:16

It would be very hypocritical of me to be anti private education given the ££££ I have paid over the years for my dc. This does not stop me being very anti cheating though. And try as I might I can find no other description for sitting an exam with advance knowledge of the questions. And if my dc did this, I would be very disappointed in them and the school - it is cheating. And I would think this whatever school it was.

Lweji · 01/09/2017 14:17

Not that I’m condoning any cheatings of any sort

Sure...

BigGreenOlives · 01/09/2017 14:51

DD is starting two Pre-Us this term. I'm quite pleased the scandal has happened now before she sat her exams & that her school did not do the tainted subjects last year. I can assure anyone that I have never seen any of my children's course work and don't even know what my son's EPQ was on.

Clavinova · 01/09/2017 15:04

Ta1kinPeece
Clavinova - Did the advert to which you refer predate the massive clampdown about five years ago after examiners were caught 'briefing' rooms full of teachers about the upcoming exams.

Yes, I think it was 2010 - no idea if the Chief Examiner still works at Peter Symonds though.

Perhaps this is the 'briefing' you were referring to?
AQA, Edexcel, WJEC and OCR all holding paid for 'seminars' in 2011 where teachers were told which questions would come up in the next round of exams?
www.telegraph.co.uk/education/secondaryeducation/8940788/Exam-boards-seminars-costing-120-per-head-where-teachers-are-told-what-will-come-up-in-exams.html
www.newstatesman.com/blogs/the-staggers/2011/12/exam-boards-schools-teachers

Not sure you've got your facts right over the Economics Pre-U at Eton - In The Times today it says the sacked teacher sent the questions by email to other teachers under 'the guise' of 'revision material' which suggests that the pupils and the other teachers did not know.

and only fired him when it hit the press
This is definitely incorrect as the letter from Eton's headmaster to the parents is dated 3rd August and quite clearly states that Mr Tanweer has left Eton's employment - ie sacked three weeks before it hit the press.

sendsummer · 01/09/2017 15:38

CIE seem to have weaker internal controls than the bigger exam boards - which is a genuine area of concern
Yes I agree TalkinPeace that controls need to be tightened. I wonder if those administering preUs have been doing it in similar style and ethos to administering exams at university. That is obviously not appropriate for schools and I am sure will now be addressed.