Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Education

Join the discussion on our Education forum.

Original poster

Eton caught cheating on Pre-U

232 replies

BossWitch · 26/08/2017 08:22

Saw this on bbc's papers round up but can only find a full story link in the Fail, sorry.

www.google.co.uk/amp/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4824050/amp/Eton-deputy-head-quits-amid-claims-helped-pupils-cheat.html

Basically, a deputy head who was a senior examiner and involved in setting the exam leaked the exam materials to staff and students for one of the economics papers for the Cambridge Pre-U so all those marks have been disregarded. Deputy head has now left the school.

I'm quite shocked. What on earth was he thinking? And how much pressure must he have been under to ensure results that he thought this was a good idea?

Any Eton parents about on mumsnet today? What are your thoughts?

OP posts:
KarlosKKrinkelbeim · 28/08/2017 20:11

Gjagekatting, btw, is Norwegian for flagellating. In case you were wondering

peteneras · 28/08/2017 20:17

Seems to me the cheating teacher at Eton is not the only idiot, Karlos. I see there are much, much bigger ones right here at this forum! No doubt their offspring will continue to serve under graduates from that great Windsor school.

And right now I've better things to do ...

Lweji · 28/08/2017 20:18

The poster is correct 1000 of the 700 000 fatalities in WW1 we're old Etonians

That just shows that they were not good at survival really.

KarlosKKrinkelbeim · 28/08/2017 20:20

I am not sure Etonians are quite so prolific in positions of power as some, both pro and anti, like to think. I have never "served under" one in 20 years of practising law. It's the clever hard working grammar school kids who make it in my game I'm afraid, with a few exceptions.
Just as well when you see what a mess etonians make if government. Stick to the stage lads. You can't do any harm there.

titchy · 28/08/2017 20:30

But it simply isn't true that at university everyone is taught by the examiner! How could that possibly be true across the board.

Typically if a large department has several occurrences of the same module running, each taught by a different lecturer, they will decide between them, or the more senior will decide and let the others know.

So yes, each cohort of degree students is treated equally as far as exams goes.

KarlosKKrinkelbeim · 28/08/2017 20:32

That really isn't how it worked for me, but I accept my experience may not be typical. Some people would be supervised by the examiner. Most would not (in the subjects taken by large numbers at least). No one thought that was unfair and I don't think it was.

Lweji · 28/08/2017 20:34

I'm surprised that nobody mentioned that the one who got sacked wasn't white.

This is the list of the Economics and Politics staff.

W J Alderton BA
D S Bahr BA
R E Bahr MA
P R K Bird BA +
D M Gregg BSc Deputy Head, Pastoral
B J Murray Cusati MA
L J Purshouse MA MPhil PhD $ Politics
G B Riley MA
T G Settle BSc MSc
P S Smith MA

Lweji · 28/08/2017 20:37

The thing in university teaching is that different teachers aren't competing with others to get their students accepted elsewhere, and their salaries don't depend on getting students to pass. At least in my experience.

We want our students to do well, but afaik there's no real drive to cheat.

1981trouble · 28/08/2017 20:45

I'm a bit confused by what on earth cie are doing having a practising teachers knowing the content of the exam.

Examiners might be asked to review questions, write questions etc but the final breakdown of questions and topics are meant to be confidential even within the organisation, after the saga a few years ago with seminar attendees being told what would be on them things were tightened massively so control measures were in place.

This is more on cie than the school teachers who should not be in that position in the first place.

BoffinMum · 28/08/2017 20:49

At university the process is checked by an external examiner. We send the papers, plus random samples of each degree classification or grade, all the fails, and anything that has been third marked. They then write a report on how the standard relates to other universities and how consistent or inconsistent we have been. We also have to offer every single mark for approval by an examining board plus the external examiner. It's pretty thorough.

Lweji · 28/08/2017 20:51

1981trouble

Because those teachers at Public Schools have the highest values and morals, don't you know?

Except the non-white guys from "elsewhere". You can't trust those. They thought they could, but they can't, really.

Ta1kinPeece · 28/08/2017 21:12

1981trouble
Both the chap at Eton and the chap at Winchester were the lead exam writer - not just a school teacher

peterenas
Are you happy with the moral compass of Eton's pupils and teachers that they did not raise the matter with the exam board the moment the opened the exam paper?
Or are ethical values re conflicts of interest only for state school proles ?

Eton2017 · 28/08/2017 21:20

We don't know that they didn't, Ta1kinPeece. We can deduce they didn't go to the press, that's all.

Ta1kinPeece · 28/08/2017 21:26

Eton2017
The school always did A level economics.
then they hired the lead examiner on the Pre U and switched to his course
it absolutely and utterly stinks
if they knew about it in June, why did he not "resign" at the end of term
did they notify the Universities who were looking at UCAS results that were based on extraordinary teaching circumstances?

If an LEA state school were ever to behave in such a manner, the DFE would demand the head and governors resign

EmpressoftheMundane · 28/08/2017 21:27

I don't think it's fair to impute racism. What's clear, is that the folks charged with designing, and running this exam system look like people not capable of organising a piss up in a brewery.
I am always drawn to the simple explanation of incompetence, rather than more complex motives. Real life tends to be that straight forward and boring.

Lweji · 28/08/2017 21:32

It's kind of odd that no other teacher was implicated and this one was sacked.
I'm having trouble believing it was all him, and it wasn't expected that he'd give them the questions.

Eton2017 · 28/08/2017 21:34

We do not know enough of the facts to justify any strong judgement. I know criticising Eton is fun, but really.

Ta1kinPeece · 28/08/2017 21:49

Eton2017
Eton are at fault, as are Winchester and all the schools who have not been exposed yet .....
but CIE deserve to have all of their accreditation removed for permitting such a gross conflict of interest.
( my day job is internal controls auditing ..... sniffing out conflicts of interest is rather a specialty )
I feel a teeny bit sorry for the kids as they were clearly under pressure to stay quiet as this is how we do it
but would hope that some of their parents are now discussing ethics with them.

The SLT at the schools who have been allowing this to go on have questions to answer
and Cambridge University might want to look at the Governance of organisations who work under their umbrella.

The blind partiality of peterenas is irritating but most of the old Etonians I've met are more nuanced.

cowgirlsareforever · 28/08/2017 21:55

Like many other schools lots of Etonians lost their lives in the Wars. I also believe that Etonians were the reason Britain lost it's Empire.

Lweji · 28/08/2017 21:57

CIE deserve to have all of their accreditation removed for permitting such a gross conflict of interest.

Fully agree.
Once one school is clearly doing it, all others follow if they can.

Dapplegrey2 · 28/08/2017 22:00

That just shows that they were not good at survival really
Lweji do you honestly believe that soldiers fighting in the trenches lost their lived because they were not good at survival?
What an utterly despicable comment.

Lweji · 28/08/2017 22:19

Actually, that is a fact.

I lost the link, but it seems that public (Eton) school boys died in disproportionally greater numbers than other soldiers. They were young and low level officers in the trenches and raised to sacrifice themselves. Launched into a battlefield they weren't prepared to with great ideals.

The character Lieutenant The Honourable George Colthurst St. Barleigh (of Blackadder goes forth) seems to be a fairly accurate description, if we account for exaggerations for comedic value.

Ceto · 28/08/2017 23:23

At University, everybody is taught by the exam setter.

Not necessarily. I remember when I was at university they had to rewrite the exam paper for one subject at short notice because the lecturer in question was too frank in advising people in his tutor groups what they should be revising. I was delighted, I wasn't in his tutor group and the original version of the exam wouldn't have suited me at all, whereas version 2 was much better for me.

Ontopofthesunset · 28/08/2017 23:30

I don't think CIE isn't the only board that has its examiners teaching its syllabus. I know of one case where OCR chief examiner for a particular course was teaching that A-level syllabus.

EmpressoftheMundane · 28/08/2017 23:36
Shock If we are going to put children through high stakes tests, we need to take it as seriously as we expect them to. It's just not good enough, is it?
Swipe left for the next trending thread