Dreamer of dreams,born out of my due time, Why should I strive to set the crooked straight. Wm Morris

[indignatio]

Hopefully the link from the other thread will work

My stats

ds is 4.5 - summer born
In reception class

Has issues with:-
Easy distractability (school work and practical tasks)
Concentration problems when not totally engaged by something (95% of the time)
Fidgeting
Getting "lost" in the middle of a complicated sentence/explaination.
Bossy manner
Isolation at school
Poor eye contact
Repetition of sentences until he hears the acknowledgement
No herding instinct

On the positive
Very loving boy
Exceptional reader for his age
Good at maths
Lots of "home" friends
If gripped by something, can concentrate on it for ages

dx:
teacher initially thought he might have dyspraxia - no longer thinks so.
I consider that he has more add traits, but would not go so far as to say he has add.
SENCO to informally assess him next week and then meeting to be arranged with parents, teacher and senco shortly thereafter.

Not sure what else I should put in.

indignatio, at the moment we just have a dx of "language disorder". School are hamming up the statement as it's unlikely he'll get any 1:1 otherwise, as fmv has experienced. From what I can tell, the problem with "our boys" is that being bright they tend to get side-lined. This is my DS's teachers opinion. I was told by ed psych they usually have to be 2 years behind overall to get any help Will know soon enough ...

Oh I'm so pleased this thread has got going! Thought all the dreamy boys had disappeared...

Re Indignatio's second list

DS1 is right handed (but was v late to find a hand preference)
He is the eldest of 2 boys
He was born in June (a month premature)
He has bright parents (this seems to be a constant!)
He likes mazes but isn't always great at them (fine motor skills problems)
He treats younger children in the same way as he does his peers - sociable but equally happy on his own.
He has an over-protective mother but an extremely laid back dad.

Do your boys have problems finishing work? DS1 (5.9)has brought two pieces home recently which he said he 'didn't have time to finish' - both hardly started. He has also had homework this week to construct a house from junk materials (it was supposed to be a two week homework but I found it in his tray on Friday). I've had a terrible job getting him to concentrate on it for any length of time and have ended up giving him far more help than I should. We've clashed several times over it (it doesn't help that I LOVED doing this sort of thing when I was a kid and find it hard to understand why he has no enthusiasm at all.)

I never seem to have the emotional energy to post about DS1. But here goes. He is 8.5, in Y4.

Things I worry about:

Distractible, fidgety
Poor handwriting
Messy, disorganised
Not very co-ordinated generally, but OK-ish
Poor impulse control
Over-excitable socially
Very emotional and mood turns in a second - depths of despair to heights of happiness
Difficulty getting to sleep
Articulate, but written work always seems lacking
Never stops talking and is not very good at realising when his audience (me or DS2) has had enough
Beginning to say things like "I am rubbish at everything" as soon as he gets something wrong

Things I am relieved about:

Charming and funny (when not being moody, destructive and despairing)
Loves jokes, funny books, puns
Good reader, though finding it hard to move him on from The Beano
Exhaustive knowledge on various topics of interest to him (he is a serial obsessive)

DS2, who is 5 and really quite different, is also not finishing work at the moment, and I feel a bit impotent and frustrated about it all really.

DS1 has an August birthday and also has bright parents (no, honestly) - and probably one over-anxious one.

difficulty getting to sleep! Yes, singersgirl, mine too, no matter how busy a day he has had, or how much 'down time' he cannot get to sleep. your ds sounds very like mine.

fmv & singersgirl, I've recently been really worrying about DS when he gets to 8 or 9. Do you think your DS's "problems" are more pronounced now than when they started school? Have they had any help in or out of school?

I have no experience of speech therapy (though interestingly ds strugles with sh sound and sibilant sounds generally.) because he is very articulate and noone has ever had a problem understanding him, we felt it would undermine his confidence even more if his speech was being worked on in addition to the huge writing/spelling problems he has. I don't know if that's a right or wrong way of looking at things...

As he has become older, we have learned to appreciate his passion for ceretain subjects, his imagination, his sensitivity, his affectionate nature, his sense of humour etc more and more. He is a fab person to be around.
However I can't help but worry about what the future holds for him as he hates school and enforced learning so much. And it's very frustrating for us all as he 'knows' he is cleverer than many in his class but is constantly (in his eyes) being marked down for the poor writing, letter and number reversals, bizarre spelling and failure to concentrate.

he resents the help he gets in class because it marks him out as different. But when we hired (at huge expense which we couldn't afford) a private tutor at home to help him, after a few weeks he had a meltdown and we had to stop. I think he gets brain-fried by the end of the day with all the effort of having to listen, understand, learn and conform for 6 hours at school

Not sure this is the answer you wanted to hear

Singersgirl - frustrated and impotent, yes! That's exactly how I feel sometimes. I can't help thinking that it's the school's job to give him the support he needs to finish work (but being a teacher myself, I know how hard that is).

DS1 is also a serial obsessive - atm it's Dr Who in all his incarnations. We're selling our house and prospective buyers have been treated to a show of his video collection with accompanying recitation
'That's the oneth doctor, William Hartnell, this is the twoth doctor, Patrick Troughton, this is the third doctor...' etc etc

Filthymindedvixen, DS1 hates enforced learning too (I think that's why we had a problem with the house hwk.) And 'brainfried' at the end of the school day is a perfect description! In fact a cranial osteopath once told us that he could tell that DS1's brain 'scrambled' after a period of focus and that he needed plenty of rest periods in between concentrated activity. I just don't think they get that at school though, even at 5!

god i would love our ds's to meet up! Mine would adore to talk Dr Who for hours with like-minded 'anoraks' LOL...not sure he'd listen much, mind

Wow, this thread is fantastic. Please may I tell you about my ds?

August born
Age 7.6 and in year 3
Left handed
Messy
Disorganised
Easily distracted
Clumsy
Heavy footed (think baby hippo)
Slow to start written work at school
In lowest set for all subjects at school
Rubbish at any sport involving hand-eye co-ordination
Desperately forgetful about picking up his belongings/handing in homework/lunch money etc

Everyone comments on how polite he is
Kind and loving
Popular (especially with the girls)
Great at dancing and acting
Does not feel the need to fit in with the crowd at school - happy to be his own person
Very bright and has great memory for how things work/people/places/occasions

I worry about the academic side of things more than anything - he is very slow to start his work, easily destracted, and very slow to write (and very messy too)

Oh, and he is Dr Who obsessed!!

I'd like to add details about my daughter - she's just 8.

Not achieving at school. In lowest sets for nearly everything, BUT a good reader. Struggles to hold her pencil correctly. Main problem with school work is that she is constantly in a dream, never finishes anything.

Had some speech problems, more or less ironed out now, but still has difficulties with some sounds.

Generally (at school anyway) has no self-esteem or confidence. All teachers say that she is underachieving (and annoyingly constantly point out to us that she is SO different from her sister!!)

She is also very slow to get changed for PE etc.

Oh, and crucially, she doesn't listen. Hence never knows what she's supposed to be doing. Basically she's in a dream!

OOh, and (sorry, just saw something else I recognised on the thread) has trouble getting to sleep. Is disturbed by noise.

Not sure about the noise thing with my ds - he has the loft bedroom, so perhaps he is just further away from us....

He does take ages to get to sleep, but that is because he wants to read/play...

Hippipotami, I love your description "Does not feel the need to fit in with the crowd at school - happy to be his own person" - that is exactly like my DS. DH calls it being comfortable within his own skin, because he's like that too. That's why the line of William Morris's poem "Why should I strive to set the crooked straight?" makes me want to weep.

Hippipotami - so many similarities! I think it's very important that we're all listing the positives about our children - DS1 is also a fab child to be around!

Had parents evening last night - it went like this

Teacher: Oh DS1, lovely DS1. He's so often....how can I describe it? (buries head in hands)
Sphil: Away with the fairies?
Teacher: Yes!

She went on to say how he's fine at completing work as long as she's sitting at his table but as soon as she moves away he loses focus and either works very slowly or stops altogether. She also said he makes 'elaborate excuses' for why he hasn't done anything, eg
" My brain was thinking about something else"
" I was in a daydream world"
" I am Tigerman today so I don't need to do my maths"

I don't think he makes these reasons up - I'm pretty sure it's how he feels. He's always talking about finding it hard to concentrate. When I asked him about needing the teacher to sit at his table he said it's because 'it reminds me to work'.

On the positive side - he's 'above what's expected' (level 1a) in reading and science, doing fine in maths (1b) and only just under Level 1 in writing (which isn't as far behind as I feared). Everyone likes him - she said he's popular because he's always kind, gentle and calm.

I realised afterwards that I'd come away without saying anything positive about him myself - I wanted to rush back in and say 'yes, you're right, he's absolutely lovely and we wouldn't change him for the world'. It makes me angry with myself that I'm so attuned to success in school (partly because I was always the one at the front of the class with an eager smile and my hand waving in the air).

Any advice about helping concentration/limiting day dreaming would be much appreciated. His teacher did have some good ideas and is actually great with him - but we move house in 10 days and I'd like some strategies to suggest to his new school.

Sorry - long! Parents evenings always get me like this...

Sorry - meant to say, do you think we could arrange a dreamers meet up? Would love it! Will be SW from April - don't know where everyone else is?

Sphil, I also had parents' evening last night - and I cried. Basically was told she's in a world of her own, doesn't listen to task, doesn't complete anything, isn't achieving what she could.

Just don't know what to do!!

Lovely post Sphil. It does sound like your DS is doing well inspite of his poor concentration/dreaminess. I don't have any suggestions I'm afraid but I would love to hear any!
I'd also love to meet fellow dreamers. I'm also SW - where are you moving to?

I will join in, though I've posted so much about my son I sort of feel everyone has had enough already ... Also once I start I won't be able to stop. So apologies in advance.

he's almost 8 (next month) - so spring, not summer, baby
in year 3, though at a specialist school which groups by aptitude not by age (he's in a mixed Year 3/4/5 class)

issues:

• doesn't learn from experience: big difficulty with learning "routines" - so is still having to be reminded to unpack (& how to unpack) his school bag when the others have been doing it automatically since reception. Affects behaviour too: even if he's told off for something, day or two later he'll do it again ...
• self-regulation - poor impulse control, lack of recognition of consequences, gets hyped up & "silly" & finds it very hard to get back down again
• distractibility; historically v bad at finishing work (this has improved recently, as we've been working on ideas for motivation)
• recognition of authority is shaky: doesn't really get that someone is telling him off unless they are very emphatic about it - so doesn't respond to initial stern looks/gentle reminders to behave, with consequent escalation of teachers' frustration & crossness
• muddled speech, goes off at tangents
• gets very stuck writing stories - finds sequencing the ideas very very difficult
• gross motor skills poor - "heavy-footed" a good description for him too

=> these are all connected & (we've been recently told) belong under heading of "executive function" problems - ie with the "think/plan/do" sequence. Also some (not very serious, I think) sensory problems - touch-sensitive, over-reactive to a few sounds, poor sense of body-in-space

positives:

• academically fine, all-round, though specially intuitive with maths
• fantastically cheery & resilient - bounces back from any disappointment or upset within minutes (ironically makes it even more difficult for him to learn from experience!)
• endless curiosity, for his own and other people's ideas - lovely interesting & perceptive questions. Loves to try & enter somebody else's way of thinking about things
• very musical
• teacher has described him as "very civic-minded", which is nice
• the most gorgeous loving kind big brother any little girl could have. I think dd does realise how lucky she is.

Socially it varies - in his last (mainstream independent) school he was starting to stand out as "odd", was playing up to that, & was becoming quite badly socially isolated - so vicious circle. In current school, seems very well integrated - has friends, plays one-on-one and in groups, gets into not-very-serious "scrapes" with boy X or boy Z (like sneaking off together into the computer room when they're meant to be on break). Likes to have very close special friends rather than big groups of mates - can be a bit fussy about who he's friends with, but it seems he has found kindred spirits at current school.

Just re-reading the thread.

It's interesting that I'm the only one talking about a girl (or lonely!).

Bink - would be interested to hear more about your decision to move schools. DD has for some time been isolated and the teachers are very frustrated with her at her (independent) school and they have already branded her a failure. However, I have been resisting moving her as her sister is happy there and I don't want to make her feel like she has not succeeded. Your ds's current school sounds much more sympathetic though. What part of the country do you live in?

g7, I have a nearly 7yo dd who could fit on this thread.

Vague, dreamy, forgetful, creative, sensitive.

Slow at writing, poor at spelling, gets lots of letters the wrong way round still. Fairly keen and competent reader.

Forgetful - can concentrate well but often gets distracted mid-task.

eldest of 3 dds

right handed but you'd expect her to be left handed going on her skills and weaknesses.

very loving and kind towards younger children

tends to not be part of the crowd of her peers, backs off from group situations.

Does not have overprotective parents!

I think she has mild dyslexic traits but school thinks not.

q7 - we're in central London (as is the school). It's a SpLD school - as in specific learning disability - particular focus on dyslexia and dyspraxia, but also organisational & language/social difficulties - the last two are why ds is there. The idea is that child goes there for a year or two to get intensive help, & then goes back into mainstream.

I decided to move ds because I had had enough of his old school's calling me in repeatedly to require me to explain him & tell them how to teach him - I didn't mind helping as much as I could but it was amateurs leading amateurs. I sent him for a couple of try-out days at the current school & they said "we know exactly what is going on here". Also I was distinctly worried about what looked like regressing social behaviour.

There are quite a few schools like it scattered about the country - if you are not in London I would have a look at the Good Schools Guide SEN book, or the CrestEd register as a start.

sphil your son sounds gorgeous!

actually, all your children sound gorgeous, what a wonderful, unique, kind bunch we have...

fwiw I would not change my ds for all the world.
Sometimes I think it would be easier on him if he did not struggle at school and fitted in with the football playing crowd at school. But then he would be like every other boy at that school, and not himself!

Fortunately we had a good parents' evening last night
teacher and seco were present. It was decided that:-
Senco will prepare an IEP for ds.
Social lessons (sorry can't remember the correct title for these)will be arranged with other members of his class to try to teach him how to make friends.
School happy to watch and see with ds and consider the question of an ed pych when he is 7.

His teacher has already altered her timetable so he can do paired reading with a boy in the class above. Interestingly ds was seen playing with his boy today.

Dh and I were given the oppurtunity to state that we didn't think a dx would help ds at the moment as it would not translate to extra help in the classroom. Teacher and senco didn't disagree with this.

I think that ds will be treated more as the indiviual he is rather than trying to make my square peg fit into their round hole !!