Dreamer of dreams,born out of my due time, Why should I strive to set the crooked straight. Wm Morris

[indignatio]

Hopefully the link from the other thread will work

My stats

ds is 4.5 - summer born
In reception class

Has issues with:-
Easy distractability (school work and practical tasks)
Concentration problems when not totally engaged by something (95% of the time)
Fidgeting
Getting "lost" in the middle of a complicated sentence/explaination.
Bossy manner
Isolation at school
Poor eye contact
Repetition of sentences until he hears the acknowledgement
No herding instinct

On the positive
Very loving boy
Exceptional reader for his age
Good at maths
Lots of "home" friends
If gripped by something, can concentrate on it for ages

dx:
teacher initially thought he might have dyspraxia - no longer thinks so.
I consider that he has more add traits, but would not go so far as to say he has add.
SENCO to informally assess him next week and then meeting to be arranged with parents, teacher and senco shortly thereafter.

Not sure what else I should put in.

singersgirl - again, compensation via ability is just what we've been told! - when he had a SALT test at 4 they told us that was exactly why ds's receptive speech was so very far ahead of his expressive speech.

That was really another reason why I moved him to the unit school - as apparently the ability to compensate can carry a child through the first two or three years of school (prob. depends on just how bright they are), but at a point it will run out & then you get sudden big problems.

I saw something that frightened me, which was a study showing that language-disordered children lose about 20 points of their IQ between ages 7 and 14 - because the ability to use/make sense of language is so key to progress. (NB these were children affected enough to be in language units - so maybe it's overstating it for our children.)

A few random comments. When she was about 6 (now 22!) my oldest didn't concentrate well. She was a year young for the class as she's quite clever and born in September which didn't help much but then she had her ears sorted out, grommets and eventually tonsils out. As soon as the grommets were in and she could hear it was a massive change so do get hearing checked.

Also one of my sons was transformed last year by a good teacher and I think also fish oil. He suddenly started to look, concentrate and went from thinking he wasn't good at anything to feeling he was good at things. I also noticed a change at home too - he would interact more, cuddle more, look at you. I am fairly sure it was the fish oil as much as anything else.

Have tried fish oil with DS1 (DS2 takes it too), but after 2 weeks his behaviour had deteriorated so much that I had to stop. He had developed a glazed look in his eyes and verbal ticcing, which is a sure sign of a food reaction for him.

Did I mention the food intolerances?

DS1 is certainly not 'gifted' or exceptional, and I don't know if he has a language problem. But he does make some strange grammatical errors sometimes - for example, he still can't seem to grasp that 'much' can't go with a plural ("there were not much toys there"). When he reads out loud, though his comprehension is very good (over 5 years above chronological age etc), he often merges two lines or substitutes words.

OK, what sort of person would be the best to assess DS1 if I pushed DH to think about it?

Singersgirl - I tend to think that the school see more problems with DS1 because he's bright - his teacher gets more frustrated with him because he's not achieving his potential. But perhaps he's not managing to compensate enough!

He does exactly the same with grammatical errors - when he started reception he used 'he' for everything but that stopped after a term. He still muddles pronouns when he's very tired though - and I know that's a marker for Aspergers.
His other grammatical errors (and there are many) I put down to him being 5 - but I don't know how old children should be before they stop making those sorts of mistakes. He does the word/line substitution when he's reading too!

I notice it more with DS1 now I see how accurately DS2 reads - he almost never jumps a line or substitutes a word, even though he is only 5.5. But he can't comprehend at DS1's level, though I think he can actually read more precisely.

In that case scrap my fish oil. It did seem to have a huge effect to the good on mine but I know it's controversial.

Would second the fish oil, see a huge difference in mine when they do/don't take it, and myself. Obviously if your child reacts it's not a good idea. Are there any other types you could try? i use pure fish oil mixed with honey. Some of them have lots of additives.

singersgirl, we saw a private developmental paediatrician recommended to us by the Wolfson Centre. We got immediate answers from her plus referrals to an educational psycholgist (private again) who came to our house and did the 3 hour(!) Weschler test & a speech therapist. We saw similar specialists on the nhs but there was so much umming & ahhing and "see you again in 6 months". Two years on I felt time was really marching on and where we live there don't seem to be many resources for children like ours who don't fit into any category in particular, aren't disruptive in class and like Bink says aren't aggressive. Sad but true.

DS already takes fish oils and hearing recently tested - absolutely perfect

singersgirl, re assessment it depends on what you are looking for, I think - diagnosis-focus, or practical pointers for academics, or physical (OT) type ideas - ?

If practical classroom pointers, we were impressed by ed psych (private consultancy) which ds's school works with - would be happy to recommend further - email me if you would like. I think in particular they would be good about where to go next if you did want a holistic developmental paed type assessment.

(Re fish oil: I tried it with ds, and thought it was only fair to take it myself at same time. Didn't seem to have much effect on ds (may have made him slightly more hyper? - that's always variable anyway, never have been able to spot a pattern) but as for myself I noticed (i) improvement in eyesight, oddly enough; and (ii) feeling lots more anxious than I usually do, really lots more. I am quite sure those were down to fish oil. I stopped it for us both. (It was the Eye-Q brand, by the way.))

ds was on fish oils for 2 years. (Eye-Q) made no discenible difference. Also cut down on sugar/additives. Ditto....

I now figure he can have a balanced mix and be happy - as opposed to making him even more miserable and bitter about school by forcing him to take oils which made him feel sick and deprive him of any sugar...and make his life unbearable

Thank you, Bink and CastlesintheAir, for the assessment advice. I may well be in touch, depending on how next week's parents' evening goes. DH has shied away from the idea of assessments - he thinks I am overanalysing (he may be right) and that DS1 is just immature.

I guess I am thinking practical pointers for school work and OT-type suggestions if required. Every parents' evening we have "I don't think he's ADHD, but....", or "He's doing pretty well, but I wouldn't say you have nothing to worry about....".

Hi - can I join. I have been lurking on this thread for a while and decided to post as I probably will be looking for more advice after parents evening next week which I'm dreading. I have Dts aged 5.5. Dt1 is not a dreamer, very bright and articulate and Dt2 is very much a dreamer, fidgeter and just not as "together".They are now in year1 . The teacher in reception brought up Dt2's concentration span in both interviews but said he was keeping up. However the teacher in yr1 in October said she wanted him assessed by the ed pysch and thought he could do with speech and occ therapyand he is still on a waiting list for both.His issues are :

needing 1 to 1 support in order to complete academic tasks. he will do it when the teacher is standing over him but becomes distracted when she moves away.

Doesnt listen to oral instructions (although of course when its something that interests him hes fine). The teacher is not sure if he has problems processing the information or if he isnt actually listening, 2 separate things in my view

Needs to interact better with his environment. By this I think the teacher means he is a bit clumsy

He seems a bit immature for his age although he is the youngest in the class

If there was a word to describe to DT2, it would be "sociable", However he has a small number of friends in comparison to DT1.However the teachers describe him as very popular with adults and his peers

The plusses

His fine motor skills are fine

He had no problems with running, jumping, hopping , skipping etc, albeit not at the top of the scale and he could pedal a bike before dt1

He is kind,considerate of others and very well mannered.

His reading and spellings are fine. Again no way is he an exceptional reader like some on this thread but he is doing ok

He has a great vocabulary but his fluency of speech could be a bit better in my view.

Seems to be very popular in school. When we go in in the morning everyone calls his name out. (Not sure if this is good or bad!) Everypne describes him as a real character

can concentrate at home on computer games and lego

Eye contact and communication skills fine

Not an obsessional type and enjoys changes in routine

Parents reasonably bright - not sure what's classified as bright but we are both professionals.

he is a beautiful blue eyed blond boy with peaches abd cream skin ( not biased in any way!)

Sorry for the ramble. Dh and I are about the same academically but we got to where we got in different ways. DH struggled a lot in primary school and it wasnt until he was about 12 or 13 that he took off. I was the opposite. We were also both summer born. Sometimes I think Dt1 has inherited all the positives from both of us in terms of sporting and academic ability at that age and Dt2 - the opposite. I am hoping its just a maturity thing but somehow i feel we could be dealing with this for a while. He has improved a lot over the course of the year but I am dreading next week as i feel the teacher wont feel the same way

Hi Maggiems
Your son sounds lovely - v similar to mine (and the rest on here) though his physical skills are obviously good, unlike my DS1.

As far as the issue of needing the teacher standing over him is concerned, Ds1's teacher is going to give him a time limit (using an egg timer), tell him exactly what she wants him to do in that time and then move away. She'll start with short periods, then gradually increase. I'm going to do it at home as well. We'll see if it works!

If Dt2's teacher has any further suggestions I'd love to know.

Welcome maggiems
Are the dts your firstborns or do they have older siblings?
Is DT2 left or right handed ?
Do you think it is a listening or procesing issue ?
Other similarities (although not for all children) which have be found on this thread (one day I will do a spread sheet !!) are trouble getting off to sleep, overprotective parents, slow and messy writing, very loving towards younger children and as Bink crucially pointed out - there is none of the aggression/defiance which would make the concentration problems many times worse.

Glad you stopped lurking and joined us - it is so nice not to feel alone in this

Thanks for the welcome.
My DTs are my first born, Dt1 is older by all of one minute.
DT2 is righthanded.
I think its largely a listening issue. he can carry out a 3 or 4 part instruction at home no problem. however at school one of his goals was to repeat back one verbal instruction to the teacher. She gave an example of where she asked him (not sure if part of a group at the time ) to do simple something simple like put your book in the homeactivity box and when she asked him to repeat it back he said something completely different, ie made it up and she said he hadnt understood. TBH I was pretty upset at the meeting as she took me by surprise when describing his problems , but then afterwards i was a bit cross because there is no way that he doesnt understand a simple instruction like that ( has been doing it since he was 2!)and the reason he didnt do it was because he didnt listen in the first instance.
I had been worried before he started school as I knew he would have problems in concentrating in a big group but I had hoped he would be outgrowing it at this stage.
Definitely has a protective mother but its because I am worried about him that I am like this. Father depends on me to keep him up to date on how I think he is doing but deep down father is a hypercondriac about himself and everyone else he cares about and is completely irrational about everything

Going to sleep is ok although things have to be quiet. DT1 is actually harder to get down

Writing is ok, teacher said it was what was expected for his age and he has improved loads since the last meeting. Pretty slow to write out sentences but again a lot of improvement.

Boys were a month premature and if born when they should have been would only be in reception now, - I could go on forever on that one

No aggression or violence. Sweet natured boy most of the time.

Wouldnt say loving to younger children. Not much exposure to very young children tbh. Does play with reception boys as well as year 1 boys but looks at babies and toddlers with disdain most of the time unless they are carrying some interesting toy.

Sphill - I like the idea of the egg timer. I have been trying to think of something to reward per task during homework other than sweets and I think the egg timer would work.

I will let you know how wednesday goes. I am going in with the attitude of "What strategies have you got" rather than prepared to just hear a list of his difficulties. The last time i was a bit thrown so i am trying to be better prepared
this time.

I am glad I joined this thread. feeling better already

Egg timer sounds like a good idea for both mine, DS2 in particular (I know he is not the dreamy one, but he is fed up with school at the moment).

good luck today Maggiems

Hi maggiems, my DS (just 5) has a language problem which is partly not understanding and partly not listening I am sure as well. I'm just starting speech therapy for him and hoping for a result but some things like selective hearing you can never change I guess Good luck today.

Thanks for wishing me luck. Well it didnt go well. The teacher thinks his concentration issues are his biggest. Also his processing is somewhat behind although its difficult to know how much is not listening to instructions and being slower than average to process instructions. Anyway he is being referred to the ed pychologist but this will probably not be until well into next year and other than the teacher standing over him as much as possible there is nothing else available at the moment. She said he can do some things really well and others not well at all. For example if he has to use counters to do taking away, although he understands the concept perfectly well , the fact that he is slow to say put out a large number of counters he has forgotten what the sum is. She gave me the schedule thats going to the ed psych to read and sign and I feel really down about it all.

Big hugs magiems

From re-reading your posts I have the impression that DT2 can happily follow instructions at home - if this is the case, what do you think is different about the teacher's instruction ? All the external stimuli ?

Did the teacher have any positive strategies ?

Is the school Senco involved ?

Thinking of you.

Thanks Ignatio - yes he can follow instructions at home and i definitely think its external stimuli that increases the problem at school. At home he can be easily distracted too but obviously not as many things to be too much of an issue.

She gave me his IEP with the usual sorts of things on it, like seating him away from distactions, getting him to repeat instructions etc and she also suggested the egg timer. Must be the in thing atm.
Yes the Senco came in to explain the whole EP thing but I sort of knew it anyway.

the teacher also mentioned the Gross motor skills thing. Although Dt2 did all the things like running, hopping, pedaling etc at an age appropriate time but he does sort of bounce about and his co-ordination isnt great. When taking off his clothes for example bits of them can be found everywhere as he moves about. However he is not hyperactive at all if that makes sense. i remember someone directing me to some book at one stage about how sometimes when your brain is busy trying to control your movements , that there is not much capacity to take much more on board. that struck a chord with me.

Sorry - Indignatio -typo in my depressed state

As well as external stimuli, could the difference in the teacher's expectations and yours be an issue, maggiems? Your son might know that you know he can follow instructions, but be aware he can get away with more with the teacher's lower expectations? (Five-year-olds just don't take account of their own long-term interests, more's the pity...)

Just a thought, really. I know the above has been an issue with my DS3, but all our children are different.

On the maths issue, might your son manage rather better with a less laborious method than counters? If he understands the concept perfectly well, could he just try using another method (number line or even column subtraction) that might suit him better (after all, no adult uses counters - do we?)

And {{{hugs}}}, maggiems.

To echo Hallgerda, his teacher is giving him a number of steps to complete a simple subtraction sum, when only one step is necessary. My ds can count backwards very quickly from 10 - too many rocket books ie 10,9,8,7,6,5,4,3,2,1,blast off. So he understands that 9 take away 3 would be counting back 3 from 9 which he could do in a couple of seconds, rather than the 5 minutes taken to find the counters, check which number, count out 9 counters, count them again to check that there are 9,check how many to take away, take away three counters, count the remainder twice to make sure you have the correct result - BIG FAFF