Hey Teachers! FTWM to afford private? or SAHM to make up for local school failings?

[majorstress]

We aren't happy with the local anymore, really, and next year DD1 goes to juniors which is even worse, while DD2 starts infants. Having seen her work at the parent-teacher conference last week, it's clear that DD1 does not get enough attention in a class of 30, and anything she finds hard or boring she simply doesn't complete-and that is how it stays. Folders of mainly incomplete work except in one area, the one that she finds easy -I just get "but never mind she's amazing at X" whenever I say "but what about her (diminishing) Y skills".

Should I fork out for a school and leave it to the professionals, or give up work to become dds private tutor? I have the choice right now. Part-time working just isn't working for us.

I don;t think home ed would suit me or dd so we have gone for independant.

The option that is best in your case depedns on you and your child's personality.

I like home ed in principle, but for us it just woudn't work (and that is with dh being a teacher.)

I went independant with ds simply because I knew that he would fail to reach his potential in a class of 30. He is a July baby and knew that he would be labelled as the naughty one if left to his own devices too much!
It really is about knowing your child and whether the financial sacrifices are something that you can manage longer term
good luck

I think that you need to have a look around your localish independents to see what you think. The grass is not always greener, and there may be something else which doesn't quite suit you or the dds. That said, I had always sworn that my dcs wouldn't go to a private primary school and yet I find myself converted!

I wasn't clear from the op as to whether you're considering home ed, or just suplementing what she gets at school. I guess I would have some reservations about the latter - when does she get to play etc.

no way home ed for me, I was only thinking of supplementing. But you're right ladymuck, already the issue is when do they get to play? The school has them most of the year for 6.5 hours a day, and gives about 10-30 min of homework per weekday too-dh and I already started to supplement more diligently but it's squeezed in between feeding bath and bedtime and looking after dd2.

I've noticed a huge difference with local friends, who are the same age similar intellect but at an independent-they are expected to achieve what is set them, not to just be handed it then ignored as to whether they have DONE it and UNDERSTAND it. The goals set are the same but they are already mastering things that my child hasn't, but clearly finds easy if I insist she does it. The school isn't insisting on anything except that we not be late! to sit there doing-what?

I've sent off for 3 prospectuses, unfortunately have missed the boat for both kids to apply for the very selective one, which they would easily have gotten into at 4, and dd1 might have stood a chance for the rising 7 with tutoring-but I didn't realise how much she was sliding back until now.

Ladymuck and anyone else, did you make the transition after trying out local primary education? Wondering if I have really screwed up here.

A mum of a girl in dd's year moved her elder dd at age 7. However at the time the pre-prep (nursery-yr 1) dept had only just opoened so everyone joined the school at year 2.

Good luck with this majorstress, it must be very difficult to see your dd not doing what she's capable of....I agree with ladymuck though, the grass isn't always greener; private does not always equal better; there was a thread on here a while ago from a mum with a dd who had always been in private ed., I think the dd was secondary school age, and the mum was having exactly the same issue as you, the dd was falling behind, not doing what she could be, and the school weren't addressing it at all, just letting her coast. The mum was paying for private tutor as well as private Ed.!!

I'm sure this is unusual though - hope you find the right place, I'm sure it's out there; I too would go for that rather than extra support/tutors at home, due to the age of your children, as you say they need time to play!!

I've noticed lots of movement in the local, kids come and go all the time, I'm sure that some are moving to independents (or faith, not an option for us).

I HAD thought that most independents were nothing special academically, just good on lots of extra activities. One friend had warned me off private too because it's so hard to go back if your circumstances change, the kids are so out of step. But now I see they are falling behind, not just out of step, with what they need to learn to get on in life.

I was very committed to the community and mixing with every sort of person, but not at the expense of my child as an individual learning enough to go on to do whatever she wants later.

Thanks sunnysideup. I guess I would still have to be demanding with the school if they weren't up to scratch even if private. It's much more complex than I realised-I took a "let her sink or swim" approach for the first 3 years, on the grounds that I hadn't even started school myself by this age. The idea was let her be happy and make friends. But now I see how she can't ever go at her own pace in the easy things, or get any notice for her efforts on things that aren't a piece of cake FOR HER, and how the school experience is so like mine, which consisted entirely of dealing with huge classes, being endlessly told off collectively when doing nothing wrong, avoiding bullies, obeying school rules and once a year teacher conferences where my mum was told "but she's really amazing at x without any effort on our part, so we don't bother about anything else. She's no problem (FOR US)-we'll just focus on the difficult kids instead. Ta!". It's already happening even though she is younger.

You don't have to go to the extreme of home ed, if you plan to be SAHM then can do housework and "me" time etc during school hours and supplement the lack of schooling when they get home either yourself which if possible during primary stage or with a tutor if necessary.

You know your own child so can concentrate on their weaknesses using a different technique. This worked with DD

yes astronomer that was what I was thinking as the SAHM alternative, and it's true it would be focused on a class of one (well next year 2!). Also would have a bit more time to spend on materials, and ME so that I am not so burned out before they even get home....

how old is your dd? when did you start?

Astronomer - this obviously has worked for your DD however surely it can cause other problems - I suppose I should ask what worked well and what didn't, for example:

• wasn't your DD very tired after school - isn't it a lot to expect a child to study after school as well?
• did you do this because you felt your DD needed extra help to catchup or was it because she wasn't being stretched at school. If it was the latter didn't this just open a bigger gap at school and basically mean the problem became more pronounced?

I only ask because I am in a similar situation to majorstress, although by DD hasn't started school yet.

Hmm I thought that about opening a gap, but in our case dd1 is at the bottom of the top sets IYSMIM-when she has drifted lower the work has become really tedious for her and she has got away with not doing it somehow, therefore falling further back. With an experimental extra hour a week at home for 8 weeks, she moved up in maths, and DD1 is now really enjoying it - it has opened my eyes. The work wasn't too hard, it was too easy. She was getting very bored, and they didn't notice.

I asked if she would like to give up after school club on the 3 days a week I now work, and she said no she liked the worksheets they give her to do there because they are "tricky". That was another clue to me, there are only a few kids in there with full attention from one nice adult who has known her for 3 years, and once she finishes one sheet she gets the next - moving on at her own pace unlike the previous hours and hours in the classroom.

There were two years in particular of her primary education that were very bad. Teachers was arty, poems and stories so maths and science were neglected. She had spare energy to do this and could do it in small chunks even sometimes in holidays (some similarities to Kumon here) just be observant as to when the tiredness is approaching Atmosphere etc at school was otherwise good.

She went from well below average in ks1 to above average in year 6 and I gradually tailed off for secondary school and she recently got nine GCSE's with a few A grades.

Did same thing with DS.

I guess this is part of our problem, dh and I are scientists, well biologists, nothing special in maths but managed, and were able with some effort to do what we wanted later. But she has been labelled at 5 and 6 as "not good at maths and science", and neglected, it seems to me BECAUSE she's so good at literacy and art. But they ARE easier for many people, and the school isn't great on maths scores either, I would have thought they would worry about it, but it's all literacy literacy literacy.

I don't WANT her to be a scientist, but she says she does. No way could this happen though with this attitude to the school work. IMO this is way too early to shut doors and specialise especially in her PERCEPTION of her own abilities, which I believe is in any case incorrect-it's the school's disorganised approach and lack of emphasis on the harder subjects. She is deeply interested in animals, the natural world and how things and society work.

What about trying for an occasional place at the most selective local independent school? My children went from about 5 to independent schools but they have 1 or 2 new children every year. One parent moved to Spain so there as a place. Another they split up and couldn't afford fees etc.

Ours have about 20 per class and the standard is quite high. They tend in our area to be at least a year ahead of the state schools. I went to private schools myself so I'm biased in their favour. One difference your comments draw out is a state school view they're doing okay so that's fine. What you really want is - let's get you working to your fullest potential in everything, good enough or average or not causing a problem for the teacher is nothing to do with it.

Also if everyone else in the class is clever that tends to pull up the standard to which everyone is working.

I used to be a primary school teacher, and both our children go to private schools. More than anything, we are paying for smaller classes, with full-time classroom assistants as well.

Majorstress, ds didn't start in state schools, though we did look round 5 of them, and I was impressed by the sheer variety, especially in adult/pupil ratio. Our favoured state school seemed to have at least 4 or 5 adults in with each class of 30(head emphasised huge amount of their budget went on TAs and there were also parent helpers). This a) significantly changes classroom dynamics as you have 4 ro 5 groups of children doing (potentially quite different) things in the classroom, and b) gives you different discipine options - it is relatively easy for one adult to take out a disruptive pupil and get them calmed down etc, and talk through a situation.

In your situation I would look around at both private and state options, especially as there isn't a cap on class sizes at junior school.

Based on my own experience at ds's school they do monitor all round progress and I came away from his Y1 parents evening with a very clear idea of where he is at. The teacher could even tell me which numbers he was tending to write backwards, the fact that he has struggled with his 4 times table but is good at the others, as well as indicating where his current strengths lay (eg his reading is excellent). She could also indicate timeframes by which they would expect to see changes in his weak spots before they were seen to be a problem (eg they expect no reversals by Y2, but they're relaxed about timestables until towards end Year 2). And of course she was forthcoming with ways in which we could help him. Paying definitely doesn't get you out of helping at home! Finally they always seem to talk about the emotional side of coping with work - eg she was worried that he was too much of a perfectionist and was getting too frustrated with his written work - and we also had to discuss his temper. But I defintely came away knowing that she knows ds1, and is determined to see him progress. The other thing I noted is that they also make a point of measuring progress through the year, eg giving his reading age, what it was at the start of the year, and what it was a year ago.

I suspect you may need a different school but you need to look around at the options. If none of them appeal then you may need to be more creative in your approach (eg stay part-time but see if you could get a tutor, esp if she likes the one-to-one)? Personally I'm wary of adding extra work (again ds's school makes a point that bright children should be given more stretching work, not more work), but if she enjoys it, it might be an option.

It is often more of a problem with maths and science at primary schools than the other subjects possibly because there are more opportunities for maths and science graduates so less likely to teach than other graduates.

If you need to take on full time work just to pay school fees something has to be lost including time with the children as you dash around after work doing washing, cooking, cleaning and just generally sorting things out.

..and sometimes things also gained by taking on full time work too...

I am glad I could shift to part time, it would have been too difficult with the long hours, and conferences and trips abroad. Having been my children first teacher (0-5 years) I preferred to hand over gradually to the professionals. (Though still asked sometimes to help with the A level work by DS and some of his friends)

I agree with Astronomer and Xenia and my DH and I are currently having to face up to the fact that if we want our 2 to be educated how we would like then something has to give. Whilst my DD hasn't started school yet, I know that her reception year (if she goes to the local school) will be a combination of new reception intake and year 1 with a total of around 30 pupils. Personally I cannot get my head around this, in fact I cannot get my head around mixed year groups at all. We have discussed delaying starting her at independant school, in fact orignally we said that we would send her state primary and then independant secondary. However it soon became clear that if you do this they will be so far behind that they probably won't get into a secondary independant school. I am not sure that this is so true for them starting when they are 7 - does anyone have an opinion on this?

To a certain extent depends on the school, and again it is stuff like maths that would worry me most. Eg at the dcs school they will have learnt their timestables starting in Year 1, and have had weekly tests etc all through year 1 and 2. Not sure where someone gets the chance to catch up on that stuff if they come in in Year 3, assuming they've missed it at infant school. But if the independent school only starts at 7 and doesn't have a preprep then they presumably have to accoutn for that in their Year 3 teaching.