Agonising over school choice

[llareggub]

Well, not really. Just can't understand the lengths to which people go to get their precious little darling into the right school.

Unless there is some legitimate need, why won't the local school do? Parent pressure might then drive up quality.

Obviously everyone wants the best for their child but what diference does a good school make to an average/above average child? Is there just a marginal diference?

Parental influence just as important/more important IMO.

Aloha said "I agree that in general private school pupils have a sort of polish, They tend to come from pretty high earning, privileged backgrounds where education is highly valued and the children are expected to have high aspirations."

My DD went to a private school from 11-16 and has certainly got a polish her brothers don't have. As her father stacks shelves in a supermarket and left school with no qualifications at 16 I don't think this generalisation is true.

I also disagree with the idea that a bright child will do well wherever they go. I was a bright child but left school at 16 with mediocre o level grades because I was very shy and trying to keep out of the radar of the rough kids in the school who didn't like "swots". My DD was the same and liked to keep herself back to the lowest in the class. Once moved to an independent school the kids she wanted to be like were those who worked. Her ambition was to beat the brightest boy and the brightest girl in her class and she tried damned hard to. She's so easily led that at a rough school she'd have been behind the bike sheds smoking.

(As an aside, it does worry me the number of teachers on MN who can't spell...)

Tallulah, could that be the number of teachers on MN who can't type?

(Or who don't preview their posts?)

Can't get excited about typos on the internet. It happens. Everyone makes mistakes.

(According to an article in one of the Sundays I must be lying above because I missed 'I' off the beginning of my sentence!)

But schools allowing up signs in the grounds which miss out apostrophes are not a very good advertisement.

I agree with you there Xenia.

(I allowed some students to put up a poster in my room just before a recent OFSTED visit nad what with all the ridiculous hulabaloo that goes along with such things, I didn't have time - or make time - to check it. It was only this week, after it'd been up for a month that I noticed a great glaring grammatical error! )

Oh I absolutely agree about schools & businesses getting it wrong becuase if someone is investing the time and money to make a sign/present an image to the public then that's one thing. But typing quickly to put forward an opinion in a public forum such as this is different. After all, in one of the posts discussing this is a typo of the type we are complaining about!

I am less tolerant of typos in emails and LOATHE them in official ones and also loathe the informality which some people think should automatically go with email e.g. I have had spectacularly bad responses in the past from Barclays Internet team and from the Australian High Commission (although the latter was a case of someone hitting Reply instead of Forward and wasn't meant for my eyes!)

Ladymuck I have taught in London but am presently teaching in Lancashire, in our particular school the problem with cover is very similar to London schools.

I teach kids last lesson who have been taught by supply all day. At present about 10%of our staff are on long term sick so have supply in and due to the stressful ature of the school I work in there are often staff off sick who need covering. That does affect marking , if it were my department I would mark the books myself to ensure that the kids work was being monitored. We often try and getlong term supply to mark as well but as they don't hvae to this is not always easy.

I can spell I just can't type, I am also rushing as I am usually having a quick mumsnet fix before getting on with lesson planning or in the case of tonight before I go to a meeting at dd school and then a council meeting.

twinsetandpearls, returning to the parental involvement point and your example of the father who checks regularly that his daughter's work is being properly marked, would you like being in the position of the daughter? I certainly wouldn't have liked my parents poring over my books on too regular a basis when I was that age (obviously, they'd have seen them on parents' night, but I wouldn't have liked them looking too much at other times). I keep well away from my twelve-year-old son's exercise books most of the time, as I feel he is entitled to some personal space and independence. Fortunately, I trust his teachers to give him proper feedback. And do you really know that the father's zealousness does anything for the rest of his daughter's class - is she the only one who gets her work marked, I wonder?

She deson't really like to TBH.

I am sure that there are teachers who only mark her book, I taught her last year and I did not know that her father did this as no one had told me but being part time I am always up to date with my marking, so he was very happy with my marking and feedback.

I peronslly would like to see a system where headteachers check marking and discipline those who are not up to date and of satisfactory quality.It is not a popular view amongst teachers.

My dd is only 5 but I go through her books, not to check up on teachers but to show an interest and I think I will always do that, although I would ask as I know in my subject in particular kids can write some very persona stuff.

twinsetandpearls, I couldn't agree more with your third paragraph. I'm sure you do a really good job - I hope you don't think I've been getting at you. I just think a school that relies on well-educated parents with time on their hands to ensure the teachers do their job is almost certainly letting down those pupils who do not have anyone to stand up for them. There are pupils (some of them very bright) in my younger children's primary school with parents who can't read or have mental health problems that really get in the way of ordinary life - they're the ones I'm concerned about.

I haven't always had a hands-off approach to DS1's work, and I would certainly have looked at it when he was five. However, in addition to the privacy point I made earlier, I feel one of the main reasons for sending children to school rather than home-educating is that they are exposed to a wider range of opinions rather than just mine - if I take too much of an interest, I am concerned that I will be pushing my own views too much and so not helping my son to develop an ability to make his own mind up.

Twinset&pearls or anyone else

Is it usual for parents to have access to schoolbooks.

Dd's are kept at school and we see them on parents evening. The only thing that comes home is her reading record and a notebook to write messgaes in.

Secondary school pupils bring their books home to do their homework, so if I really wanted to be nosy I could find out exactly what DS1 had been doing. My younger two at primary school only bring home their homework and reading books, so I wouldn't routinely have an opportunity to look at, say, their maths books. I think your situation is fairly normal.

DD is in Y1 at a private school. She doesn't get homework so I only see her books at parents' evenings.

julienetmum. My DD brings some books home when she has that particular subject as homework. Last night was spellings so she brought her spellings book home (which is more English in general really). She's Yr 3.

Again at a private school - in reception parents go into school to view books etc once a week. Then in Y1 and Y2 this is done once a month. It is a set afternoon and the teachers are always available for a quick chat if you want.

Ladymuck, that's really good. We can go in whenever we like for a chat and to have a look at the school work. I have been in a couple of times when I have needed reassuring. (DD appears terrible at maths, but her school work proves she actually probable about average!!!)

DD is Y5 at a private school.

Her books rarely come home - we get to see them on parents' evening but I have, in the past, requested that they be brought home so I cna read a piece of work DD has been particularly thrilled with or asked to go in and see books and teacher, partic if DH has been away and missed parents' evening.

Hallgerda I don't feel got at, I do getperhaps overprotetive of the kids I teach as they have such low self worth and theoir school has such a bad image and that only feeds there negativity. There are so many wonderful things going on in our school that goes unnoticed and unmentioned and sometimes I feel like doing a lady Godiva through the town centre telling everyone what we are really like rather than our bad image. I am just a passionate beliver in state education and it makes me angry, frustrated and sad when people don't think state is good enough for them ( and I am not judging (well maybe a little bit as I have considered sending muy own daughter private). I may even be idealistic, infactI know I am , but surely as one of the people responisble for teaching your kids you don't want me to be any different.

In my "sink" state school full of unteachable yobs today I have sent of letters trying to raise awareness for Darfur to MPs and national press written by my kids, discussed the merits and weaknesses of Dawkins latest book on atheism, hosted a debate capital punishment and written essays on Christain beliefs about the sanctity of life. Hardly evidence of low acheivement or no hope asbo ridden yobs.

I don't expect parents to be in charge of monitoring kids work, many of the familes I work with have parents with mental health problems or literacy issues. But I do encourage parents when possible to take an active part in their kids education, I send my books home and ask for feedback. I have before recorded a pupils work with my comments onto cassette and sent it home so the parents who could not read could find out what there kids are doing in my class and I know this was much appreciated. My dream at my school is to set up a homework club linked to our on sitecafe and resource centre where families can work through homework togther even bringing younger kids and then sharea meal together as so many of our kids have no where at home to do homework and there parents are unable to help or even monitor homework and a shocking number of our children don;t get a hot meal at home. But I am rambling now...

As for teachers having their marking checked by senior managment, I have little time or tolerance for teachers who do not do there job properly, our kids only have one chance at education an donly one oppurtunity for each lesson. I set very high standards for myself and have the same for others which doe snot always make me popular.I also feel quite privelidged reading what many of the kids write in their books for me and feel out of basic courtesy that it should be read and marked.

Dd is in reception and she brings home a variety of books each week thatI go through with dd and I have a consultation meeting everyt term where I see the others.

I use my parental influence often though!Probably drive her teacher mad!

Twinset - well said! If only every teacher was like you! DD's teacher is very much like that and is so passionate about education. However, even in the short time DD has been at school (she's in year 3 now) I have met teachers that seem so indifferent and appear to be going through the motions. I think if the teachers have passion and want the kids to do well, then the kids follow suit. School should be fun after all, and make you want to learn.