Agonising over school choice

[llareggub]

Well, not really. Just can't understand the lengths to which people go to get their precious little darling into the right school.

Unless there is some legitimate need, why won't the local school do? Parent pressure might then drive up quality.

Obviously everyone wants the best for their child but what diference does a good school make to an average/above average child? Is there just a marginal diference?

Parental influence just as important/more important IMO.

I was educated at a private school for a while, also helped out in a private school for two years as it has links to my church , have also been interviewed for a job in a private school so seen it from that angle and mostof the children in former married famiy were privately educated.I also know lots of peoplewho teach in state schools and have visited quite a few on repeated occasions as I was going to educate my daughter privately.

my son and my neices and nephews have attended the local state school. two of them have recently got onto sought after design courses. i will always support my local state school

Ican see lots of advantages for the kids involved in sending them to private schools, whihc is why it was a considernation for my dd. The social disdvanatges were my main motivation when I spoke to the parents of dd friends about us keeping all of our children together.

But there is an undeniable negative effect on state education when peopleopt out of it.

i just can't see why all schools can't be inclusive, private schools are always popping up, i find it strange that people want to segregate their children at all

DD's at a private school, it's mixed and is for ages 7 thru 18, has excellent exam results but also has a special needs unit and extra help for those that need it (and doesn't do SATS). The emphasis is on an all round education and not getting all A's at A Level. DH went to the same school and he loved it there so when we were looking at schools we had a look and it felt right. It looks like a big posh school but has the feel of a old fashioned school (that maybe never really existed!) where everyone knows each other and the kids can rely on the teachers for help and advice. Our local primary school is a drive away anyway and the local high school even further so the travel was never an issue. I am fortunate that we can afford to send DD to the school that we liked best and felt most comfortable with but if we didn't have the money then I am sure we would have sent her to the local school and be done with it. I went to the local school, it was awful and was in the bottom 5 of the national league tables (I think it was 3rd from bottom one year). But I got 10 GCSEs and 3 A Levels and went on to Uni, I think kids will do well wherever they are if they have the support of their family and decent friends. Sorry, have I been going on?

By the way I have other (e.g. political) objections, personally, as well as seeing the social disadvantages, it's just that the social ones are the ones that I think a lot of people don't appreciate, as they're disadvantages for the children themselves. I think a lot of people tend to think a private school must just always be good for the child who goes there, so by not sending a child to one you're always somehow sacrificing them on the altar of your political principles, but it ain't necessarily so. Private schools can (not always but easily) have some pretty strong disadvantages for the children who go there, too.

I agree, there are some awful private schools that although little Precious may end up at Oxford with 20 A Levels and a first class degree in Biochemistry (or whatever) they are severely damamged socially. I am not a fan of segregating girls and boys either, it's not natural for them not to mix.

Come on. Just about every mother on here really wants segregation at heart if those your child otherwise would mix with all had a very low IQ or carried guns to school. I have not known private school educated children have trouble making friends. My children have loads of friends. If over 50% of those going into Oxford went to private schools that proves they add huge value and if they don't follow some silly state school marking scheme then good for them - they're getting it right and the state system should learn from the private. Cut back on the admin and silly lists and charts and just get on with normal traditional teaching.

But what about my point - don't we want our children to be like us? So if you're strict methodists you might want them learning at a school with that ethos, or if you're very working class you might not want them educated somewhere you feel uncomfortable with and I wouldn't want my children educated with children who aren't in the very top IQ level or whatever your own criteria are.

and I would be delighted if any of teh children end up at good universities with good A levels. It's what I aim for but only plus all the other benefits they get at private schools which in my view includes ability to socialise hugely better than state school pupils and with many more opportunities hobbies chance to mature and grow up. You buy the whole package and when they're choosing their own careers you sit down with them and talk about what they want in life - do you want a career where you can send your child to a private school or not? The answer may be not but at least make sure they know which careers support that option.

People who have been to private school socialise hugely better with other people who have been to private school.

And they believe they socialise hugely better with everyone.

no i don't think all parents want segregation. it seems like alot of parents had bad experiences themselves with the state education system. they're protecting their children from the real world, but maybe then again, they'll get jobs in the city and make tons of money so won't have to mix with them at all

This will be my thread in less than 12 months.

We are fortunate that we can afford private ed and we choose to take that option. We don't have lots of things others in the same income bracket have - exotic holidays, two brand new cars on the drive, immcaulate house, designer clothes.

But it's likely we'll have to make a choice between two schools:

School one is co-ed, its pupils do well, it is selective but doesn't cream off just academically, has beautiful grounds, is a few minutes' walk away. It is mostly day, part boarding, works Saturday mornings from Y9 onwards. I work there - non academic - it's like a second home. DD is in Y5. She can stay until sixth form.

School two is academically selective, its pupils do very well, single sex, just out of the centre of town about an hour by bus in rush hour. Mon-Fri only and school fees over 7 years approx 25k cheaper than school one. I went to school there. It's like a second home.

Both schools have had new heads in the past couple of years. Both have 100yr+ histories.

It's like trying to choose between my fave summer sandals and my fave winter boots. How do you do that???!!!

"Is my child's education more important than the greater good?"

My view is that it is up to me to make sacrifices for MYSELF, not sacrifice my children who have no say. They only get once chance at their education. I don't see this a private v state at all, btw.

Pointydog you have a neat turn of phrase - your observation 'people who have been to private school socialise hugely better with other people who have been to private school. And they believe they socialise hugely better with everyone.' is very good IMO.

It may not be entirely right (and I cannot say how right is is as neither me nor my children are privately educated) but it is still a very interesting observation.

My oldest son has good social skills as it happens. He was born like that. Even when he was disruptive at school, he could still be perfectly charming company with adults when he chose to be. I was a shy child. I certainly did not teach my oldest to be particuarly at ease socially with adults, as it is something I still find difficult to be. He is at grammar school (so technically a state not private school). I cannot imagine him not being able to look adults in the eye or being inpolite and with no converstional skills when he is going for university interviews (if he does this).

IME wonderful social skills are dependent on a child's general personality. In the end you cannot effect a personality transformation - not even with the best private education that money can buy. Ok, you can teach social skills up to a certain extent, but you will never make a Noel Coward out of a Clint Eastwood.

I tend to disagree over the power that parents have in changing a poor state school. I always put lots into my son's education but things only worked out for him once he was at a 'good' state school. I can see though that a big group of parents working within a smaller school could perhaps do more, especially if they can volunteer their time during school hours.

fizzbuzz - it is quite unusual in private schools nowadays for teachers not to have proper teaching qualifications. Certainly at the private schools in the city we live in the teaching staff all have teaching qualifications and many have additional ualifications as well. They don't go though OFSTED but they are inspected regularly through organisations such as ISIS, etc. which are very similar having read the reports.

Didsagree with Xenia about marking, etc. As an (ex) teacher in the state system I always marked fully and regularly! This was not unusual; all the teachers I know marked properly! Odd comment TBH.

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Pointydog. My DH was privately educated (Boarding school from 7-13, day school to 18) and I was at a pretty dire state school. Our backgrounds are very different but it has never been an issue, I have never thought of it until you commented on how private school types socialise (and I probably would have agreed tbh til I remembered where DH went!). He has more friends from the state system than from private schools and I think it has a lot to do with the school he was at. I can't talk with much experience but DD's school is very, very balanced. Maybe this is because it's in the North and not in a fancy area, I don't know. I know that when I looked some other schools for her I got the feeling they were like that and very elitist. In an ideal world everyone would be able to walk to the local school and there would be 15 kids in each class, the teachers wouldn't be overworked and there would be no issues such as drugs and guns and knives. All I really want is the knowledge that my babies are happy, safe and cared for. I get that at the school DH and I chose, it just happens to be private (but if it was state she'd be there too I certainly don't look at it as some kind of ticket to a better social circle or elite club).

School that does better academically. Distance doesn't matter and in fact in itself is a gift of life skills to a child which a school near by doesn't give them.

Marking - I have never had a problem with marking in my children's private schools and I am sure it's done well in many state schools too. What matters is how the children turn out not how many forms the teachers have filled in and boxes ticked to comply with Government requirements. Going by which school gets the best A levels year on year and numbers of Oxbridge entrants is a reasonable indicator amongst others.

I just thought our local state school has "Visitors parking" and the twins school "Visitors' parking". That just seems to sum up the state and private divide.

It may not be the private school that makes the child appear more confident they have to be like that in the first place and be a bit mouthy at interview even at the age of three. A very quiet and shy child wouldn't have much hope.

Someone I knew who was teaching at a private secondary school not only had no teaching qualification but not even a qualification above gcse in the subject they were asked to teach

DD's school didn't have an interview. It had an open day where the kids went and were observed during a normal school day. Their previous schools were asked to give reports but they didn't do the usual exam (the seniors do though). So there was no cramming or prepping for an exam (another local private school did that, she didn't even bother sitting the exam, they scared the hell out of me as a teenager, let alone a little 7 yr old)

Come on. Just about every mother on here really wants segregation at heart if those your child otherwise would mix with all had a very low IQ or carried guns to school.

I don;t want my daughter segregating so I would send her to the school I teachat, definetly lots of kids here with a low IQ but what is goign to happen to dd, can you catch a low IQ. As for guns in schools it justis not an issue here although I admit we arenot in an inner city. THere have been incidentswith air guns and we have had the odd incident with knives but they have been out of school.

"silly state school marking scheme "

if that refers to teachers telling students what level or grade theyareworking at , prasing the postive and giving advice that shows how little you know and wha practice you are witnessing from education professionals who happen to be in the private sector.

twin, well yesm, sadly. If you want high level intellectual debate in the classroom with people picking up on points really quickly and all at the same level and no class room disruption then a class with chidlren of a similar IQ is going to do it for my children and me any time. Teenagers copy their peers too so a huge lot rubs off. If it's not cool to be aiming for those man As and A* at GCSE then it's harder to be different. If 100% are going to Russel group universities just about then it's easy to follow that mould. It is very hard to be different as a teenager.

ast, ah there's the rub. I have no problems at all with brilliant teachers with just a degree teaching my children. Private schools have kept them on and the results speak for themselves but of course all new recruits will have the teaching qualifications now in good schools so it's not really a big issue but it's the fact a state shcool parent might think this school ticks Blair's boxes on marking, SATS etc therefore it's good and a private school might say b ugger Blair look at the end product etc.

The private school issue is irrelevant for most parents but the other issue of wanting children to turn out like you (or not) is relevant to all of us in terms of their accent, class, interests, ability to fit in with our lives and friends or do we want to remodel our children so they are different and separate from us.

Also the question of segregation. Leaving private schools as an irrelevant aside (only 7% or so of people can afford them), do you pick a school where in effect there's segrgation - e.g. a grammar school where they segretate by IQ or a school in a leafy suburb where house prices are really expensive. Do you leave Tower hamlets and the local school which is 98% bangladeshi for Kent - i.e. segregate etc

Twinset - are you discussing education in London, or outside, because it sounds as if they are very different. What percentage of your teaching is covered by supply teachers? Because that seems to affect the quality of marking significantly ime.