http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/10/13/grammar-pupils-progressing-faster-than-their-peers-in-non-select/

[sandyholme]

I am pleased that finally there is a piece of evidence highlighting that grammar schools do improve performance for middle ability pupils.

All the evidence given on these threads has been to continually state the case for Comprehensive education.

sandyholme Sun 16-Oct-16 18:35:43 Petts. My DS + DDs grammar schools are facing a huge funding crisis. There is a distinct possibility that the schools will struggle to fund the full curriculum as it stands in the near future!

Yet strangely you are desperately arguing for more of the same?

2StripedSocks Sun 16-Oct-16 18:38:48 had to queue to see the Senco at the open evening).

I'm betting, based on the 0.3% / 0.3% SEN at your local Grammar schools, they won't need to queue once in the school.

Sorry, should say 0.3% / 0.4% SEN

My DS has SEN (dyslexia), verbal IQ top 1% (higher than many at grammar), he struggles with maths (dyslexia). He would definitely fail his 11+. He excels at debate, original thinking, drama, philosophy, public speaking, etc. He is in the G&T group at his comp. His educational experience really really would not be improved by having the top 20% removed from his school. It would be extremely detrimental to him. He is not a "thickie" or disruptive and he absolutely does not need a more vocational education. He and others like him can only be catered for in a comp.

"Four it's your dc's school job/ duty to cater for your son not children in the catchment whose parents may or may not send their DC there."

What's the point in grammar schools then? I thought that the argument was that bright kids needed to be with other bright kids.

2StripedSocks you posted on public forums, perhaps you should have added a note in the title asking people to not read them.

2StripedSocks Sun 16-Oct-16 19:02:03 Most people don't scour other threads and post identifying info re other posters DC.

I stated in my post (now deleted), I don't know what school your DC goes to. I assumed it was in a different area from where you live based on the things you have been posting about the school.

Do parents in Trafford agree that the non selective schools are amongst the best in the country and if so are they basing it on value add rather than top level GCSE grades?

Yes the Non Selective schools in Trafford out perform the 'more' Wealthier totally non selective Cheshire East. Quite extraordinary Broadoak in 'Partington'

( Equal or worse deprivation than Wythenshawe out performed The Knutsford Academy at GCSE ( Osborne's Constituency town with a Rolls Royce, Bentley , Landrover , OKA and a 'RICH' uncle disclaimer located there !.

Trafford really is quite exceptional in education terms .

secondary school DCs living in Trafford attend Grammar schools. That means DCs have almost a 50/50 chance of getting a grammar place.

It is why i suggest a grammar system that takes 40% of the cohort.

You can not compare the performances of LEAs selective or otherwise due to cross- border traffic, some grammar schools take up to 70% of their intake from outside the LEA. There is a 300 page report by the Sutton Trust on grammar schools which had reviewed all of the studies. The conclusion says that yes grammar schools do slightly better for the brightest pupils, however then goes onto to say that you could easily look at the data and argue it the other way. The number of grammar schools is so small that it makes it statistically unreliable, and very hard to compare due to the number of variables e.g. social-economic.

What the vast majority of parents want is a good local school for their child where they will reach their potential. Instead of spending money on creating/changing schools into grammar schools, this money could be going into schools for training, support and activities for the brightest. Make schools just as accountable for all learners and check that there are appropriate challenges and extra-curricular for all. The bill for turning schools into academies is huge, it will be similar for selection which will only benefit a small minority. If they can find the money to turn schools into grammar schools then they should be funding schools properly instead.

You can compare areas that are socially economically similar which is the case between Altrincham ,Hale Bowdon Trafford and Knutsford, Mobberley Wilmslow Cheshire East.

Indeed the highest achieving Comprehensive in the Knutsford Wilmslow area is Wilmslow High which achieved 77% 2016 just 5% better 72% (Poor year for Wellington). This is despite being a 'Modern' . The schools will be Socio Economically similar one being a full Comprehensive , The other one supposedly being a 'Modern'.

Knutsford Academy have 'always' claimed their cohort is affected by two things , the brightest in Knutsford either going private or crossing the border to Trafford.

However, how can Wellington out perform Knutsford Academy every single year !.

sandyholme achieved 77% 2016 just 5% better 72%

But these are just top line figures. What was the breakdown for high/medium/low ability?

What was the % making expected progress?

Pro grammar folks :

please respond to my post at 15:52 today
I've named the schools
tell me which should become grammars and which should not
take the hypothetical into the reality

I don't care as DS is at Symonds and DD at Uni

but I'd be interested how those in favour of segregated schools would re introduce it to counties where is antedeluvian

I don't know the area T1alkin...

There is nobody forcing any school to become a grammar, if the local parents don't want it it won't happen !

What it is about is to undo a 'childish' and petty ban from 1998 especially as many Labour MPs have either themselves or their children have been educated in selective schools whether private or state !

sandyholme 'childish' and petty ban from 1998 especially as many Labour MPs

In what way was it childish and petty and are you suggesting that the ban was only supported by Labour MPs?

sandholme
you do not need to know the area
as per TM and AR, league tables are all
look the schools up, which would you hit?
are you really saying that nobody in Winchester or Romsey or Lymington is in favour of Grammar schools ?????

sandyholme Sun 16-Oct-16 20:34:49 What it is about is to undo a 'childish' and petty ban from 1998 especially as many Labour MPs

Perhaps this is where the problem lies as it should be about improving the education provision in this Country for all children, not just the privileged few.

The reason campaigners focus on Kent is that we're being told that these new grammars are going to go into poorer areas. Isn't it therefore logical to assume that the new secondary moderns will be more like the SMs in the poorer areas of Kent than in the wealthy areas of Trafford and Bucks?

And as for choice that choice is plainly going to belong only to those who want grammars. There's no suggestion that people who don't want their comp turned into a secondary modern will have any rights at all if 20% of parents want a grammar. I've yet to see any grammar supporter arguing for a parental ballot. Wonder why?

I don't know why any parent would argue for a school to open near them that will make their local school worse, that their kids might not get into.

Laura McInery of Schools Week has got a 5 sided dice in. She is saying to anyone who is in favour of grammars to consider a child in Y6 on free school meals. They are guaranteed a place in a good school. You now have the chance to decide to roll the dice for that child. If you roll a 1, the child gets into a better school than the one allocated. If you roll a 2,3,4,5 the child is forced into a worse school than the one allocated. Do you roll the dice for that child or leave things as they are? And if you wouldn't roll it for that child, why would you insist on rolling it for any child?

Because every parent (particularly on MN) thinks their child will be above the cut off. And if they narrowly miss it then you can appeal. Screw everybody else.

But in Winchester and Romsey and Lymington and Basingstoke and Andover they could not give a shit about a "cut off" as it has not existed for 40 years
and why on earth would anybody want to bring it back?

At KS5 we have a variety of options, but the kids themselves choose them, rather than pushy parents