http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/10/13/grammar-pupils-progressing-faster-than-their-peers-in-non-select/

[sandyholme]

I am pleased that finally there is a piece of evidence highlighting that grammar schools do improve performance for middle ability pupils.

All the evidence given on these threads has been to continually state the case for Comprehensive education.

"I genuinely do not "get" the disruption stuff."

I'm a secondary school TA. I see disruption every day and unfortunately it's the kids in the bottom sets or next sets up that are affected the most.

Of comps that used to be grammars there's these three:

www.henrybox.oxon.sch.uk/

and this one

www.wheatleypark.org/

and this one

www.kirkbiekendal.cumbria.sch.uk/

All three get results for High Achievers in line with grammars. I could research some more but no number will ever be good enough. Just like grammars were fantastic at getting pupils into Oxbridge - I mean in 1961 34% of Oxbridge students were from state schools. Now that figure is 60% - proof that comps have failed.

fourma
you are so right
at my kids comp, the lower sets are much smaller with much higher staff ratios to deal with the disruption
but that is the point of a comp
appropriate support for all kids at all levels

my kids were not restricted on their A* GCSE grades by the fact that part of the cohort were doing BTECs at college one day a week.

and I'm very, very strident about it because I went to private selective gels schools in London and had quite a personal adjustment to accept that my children were thriving at a comp

HPFA! Could not find any scores for the Henry school. Wheatley and kirkbieKendal were good, with the latter being better. But the scores at my kid's grammar are stronger in breadth and depth.

We don't have any disruption in our top sets - the kids get As and A*s, just as they would at a grammar. We do have lots of issues in the lower sets though.

As a TA, I get to know the disruptive ones - they are not demons. They need extra funding, more support, and smaller class sizes.

The three schools mentioned all get scores for High Achievers of 390 or above over 8 GCSEs. Grammar schools score in the range of 380 - 450 (for the ultra -selective) but most fall within the range 390- 420. That equates to around A-.

There is a pretty wide range between different grammars which I don't think is always appreciated. Check out these two at opposite ends of selectivity - click on 2015 GCSE results

www.cgsb.co.uk/about/results/

www.tiffinschool.co.uk/life/exams.html

Well one school takes the top 2-4% of the ability range the other one says top 25% but in reality 'Chatham' boys went a lot further down than that. Maybe top 35% or so . Chatham Boys was seen as the last chance grammar school.

This info came from Kent Education Advice...

This again is not strictly true because the '40% grammar system in Trafford results blows the spots of the majority of Kent or Medway's supposed 25% system.

Chatham boys for instance used to allow pupils access to the sixth form with D grades in Maths/English.

The school has proposed becoming a Coed grammar under the new name of Holcombe grammar because it days of the 'sub standard' boys grammar in Medway are limited .

HPFA. - Whatever you say, as long as it makes you feel better. Mine are at grammar school, and they are odds on to get 8/9s. They have covered so much in Y8 and 9. You don't always get that in mixed ability riven comps.

Well, I thought I was just being factual but I guess that's unwelcome.

HPFA! We both have different views. I chose grammars because the local and wider comp provision is poor. I have to be honest and declare I am indifferent to the 'social mobility' aspect of grammar schools. I see my children as just 'passing through" whatever school and uni they are at, until they hit their chosen career. Along the way we try to have a little fun, too.

what is a "mixed ability riven comp"?
Does everyone at the grammar get 8/9s in every subject?

Do middle ability children get grammar places?
In Bucks, top 20% are grammar material. Surely middle ability is the middle third so they miss out even if you include children in the top 20% who go on to private schools?

All schools have disruption. I've seen many threads where the OP or replies suggest that a child acts badly at school because they are bored (work in a too easy)

The top end of middle ability students are often represented in grammar schools (not super selective) . Some grammar schools can have as many as 25-30% of its pupils designated as middle ability. Generally though on average 10-15% of a standard grammar schools pupils will be middle ability.

Bucks grammars have many fewer Middle Ability children than Kent grammars as it is much easier for them to draw children from over the county borders - they can set their pass-mark higher and still have the schools full.

An interesting article explaining the system in the poorer areas of Kent:

11plustruth.org.uk/index.php/2016/09/14/11-plus-disadvantaged-communities/

Data analysis for progress 8 and selection, with reference to the "middle ability" issue, and a further link.

Ah, see it is linked below too. Sorry!!!

All the evidence given on these threads has been to continually state the case for Comprehensive education

That's because all the independent evidence shows that comprehensive education is better all round.

You post something from the true-blue Telegraph and expect us to afford this an element of credibility ?

lljkk said "what is a "mixed ability riven comp"?
Does everyone at the grammar get 8/9s in every subject?"

A mixed ability riven comp is an inclusive comp, one where apart from Eng and Maths, there is no setting. Not sure if the more bale able pull up the less able, more so the thickies/disruptive elements drag down the erudite/more clever students. Sorry, been there!

Kid's superselective grammar gained over 70% A star grades. That coupled with the materials I have garnered should help them attain the 8/9 level.

Kid's superselective grammar gained over 70% A star grades.

Er, isn't that what you'd expect? The brightest kids at my comp achieved a whole load of A*s too. Take them out from the various comps, stick them in the same school and then wow over the school's effectiveness, why don't you?

Funny that.... all the brightest kids at my DS's comp get As and A*s too.

"the thickies"?