People who are in favour of grammar schools....

[BertrandRussell]

....what is your proposal for the majority who are not selected?

Also think it's disgusting that having suggested that some supposedly non-selective schools are selecting by wealth through their catchment and insinuating this was unfair, Theresa May's response was to INCREASE selection by proposing more grammars and 100% selection in church schools, rather than by looking at ways of decreasing the impact of wealthy catchment areas by having more schools use fair banding or lotteries.

Mum the wealth you need to get into a grammar is tiny compared to that you need for an Outstanding comp.

Except those outstanding comps that have a huge proportion of kids of FSM which you have discounted because they probably take kids from social housing and you don't qualify for social housing.

2StripedSocks Sun 18-Sep-16 13:10:57 Mum the wealth you need to get into a grammar is tiny compared to that you need for an Outstanding comp. It is also perfectly possible to get into a grammar spending zilch.

It is also perfectly possible to get into a high performing comp. spending zilch. Particularly if the familiy has resided close to that school for a number of years.

striped what makes you think that the outstanding schools with high levels of FSM only take kids from social housing? Or the ones that have a low level of FSM only take those with 300k plus houses (clearly they don't or they wouldn't have any FSM)

You are asserting that none of those schools would take you, which is clearly nonsensical.

And at the same time you are dismissing the good school next door to you because it's not outstanding, when Ofsted ratings are a pretty broad brush.

noblegiraffe Sun 18-Sep-16 13:43:43 And at the same time you are dismissing the good school next door to you because it's not outstanding, when Ofsted ratings are a pretty broad brush.

After all, what's to say that a school rated Outstanding in 2007 is better than a school rated Good or RI in 2015?

But you are slating the entire comprehensive system based on the school down the road from you while refusing to accept that you sending your kids to a grammar instead of that school might just have an effect on it.

Any other schools which are presented to you are dismissed as irrelevant for some spurious reason or other. It's very frustrating.

But that is apparently ok. That is equally frustrating."

I don't understand why grammar school supporters can't see beyond the personal to the issue of public policy.

Of course all parents will choose what they believe is the best school for their child.

But the role of politicians involved in drafting public policy is to consider how education policy promotes progress in education ACROSS THE BOARD.

parents do the same when deciding between two comps

But parents in your scenario can decide between two comps. If one was a grammar there's no choice for parents.

I don't think GCSE grades have much to do with intelligence. I would expect to see a greater correlation at A level

I'm Chinese! Lol. Yes I've been brought up to believe anything less than a grade A is failure. Even if you didn't achieve it, you knew as a child that was the destination to aim for. Didn't do any of myself and siblings harm. We all turned out to have professional careers in highly paid jobs due to a very strong worth ethic (and not settling for anything less than). We still enjoyed our childhoods and it's not all rote learning. Not anymore as we are now learning new Western study techniques - so combining the best of both. I personally don't understand the educational culture of being learninh limited to the curriculum level for your year. It's just seems so limiting for the bright and talented. However I do understand the state education system can only do so much.

Lets say for arguments sake all comprehensives can cater for academically gifted children. How about these 'comps' apply for some sort of accreditation to prove they actually do. Then we add a clause to their admissions criteria to allow gifted children into the school before the distance criteria is applied, which circumvents the wealth selection issue.

If however there is no comprehensive that can provide this within 3 miles then a grammar school is permitted to open.

Solution!

Or we could just look at their results.

Or we could just look at their results ... then check out the house prices needed to get into the school, slap yourself in the face and accept your not one of the wealthy elite privileged enough to have your DC stretched and challenged at school.

Grammar schools it is then.

People keep asserting that the only schools which have halfway decent results are surrounded by mansions and have zero PP students. It's very odd.

Because of course the education system should be based entirely around the needs/wants of the most able.............

Do you keep pasting that post Bertrand!

I actually do think the needs and requirements of the top 40% should be the first priority of the education system (especially bright children that are held back by Dyspraxia ,Dyslexia and ASD). Hence the reason for a selective system that has the scope to educate some of the 'brightest' of all pupils , who are suffering from specific SEN.

mathsmum314 Tue 20-Sep-16 16:07:56- then check out the house prices needed to get into the school, slap yourself in the face and accept your not one of the wealthy elite privileged enough to have your DC stretched and challenged at school. Grammar schools it is then.

What makes you think that houses close to grammar schools don't carry a premium?

And by 'most able' they actually mean pupils who meet a fairly arbitrary total on a test which favours the tutored, the wealthy, the white, and a whole helping of random students who pass and shouldn't have.

"I actually do think the needs and requirements of the top 40% should be the first priority of the education system"

Why?

All children are equally deserving.

And it's educational failure which costs this country billions. The millions of children who fail in school and grow up into adults who will never earn more than a minimum wage, who will experience long term unemployment, become involved in crime, become parents too early (something which is strongly associated with failure in education).

I am particularly keen that bright children with SEN that have been let down for generations get the chance to shine!

sandyholme Tue 20-Sep-16 16:22:09 I actually do think the needs and requirements of the top 40% should be the first priority of the education system.

Unless you are suggesting that the 11 plus can predict life choices, I have no idea why you think the top 40% should have priority.