Plan for 18 year olds to become teachers with on the job training

[noblegiraffe]

So the government's bright idea to solve teacher shortages is not to make any effort to retain the teachers who are leaving in droves, but to allow people to train as teachers on the job with only A-levels.

Because acquiring a solid expertise in your subject first is totally overrated.

www.tes.com/news/school-news/breaking-news/exclusive-first-teaching-apprenticeship-planned

Not all bright students will be able to afford Uni. in years to come

Are you assuming that student loans for tuition and maintenance will be withdrawn? Under the current system all students can afford university, since they don't pay anything upfront and pay back according to earnings.

However, student loan debts are surely going to encourage more and more students to choose higher paying professions over lower paying public sector jobs.

For me it's not the age, it's the level of education. I have a degree in my subject from an RG university but still teach 6th formers who push the boundaries of my knowledge - I am constantly learning. Doing my degree gave me the tools to be able to do that. And it was only university which gave me that. A Levels didn't.

Also, if teaching stops being a graduate level career, then what does that say?

Whether future students choose to afford to go to University or not is NOT a valid reason to ditch graduate-entry to the profession.

So-it's ok for y6 children to be taught across the board by non-graduate 18 year olds but not year 7s?

Ye gods, I shudder to think what an 18 year old would make of some of the classes I had to deal with as 'beginning teacher' as we were called then.

BTW it might be worth mentioning that physics graduates can currently get up to 30k bursaries to train as a teacher - this money can pay off a big chunk of student loan debt. Similar amounts apply for maths, chemistry, computing, biology.

I'm not saying lower the standards.Set high A level grades for entry and include several days academic study weekly.So this would pick up bright driven students that would otherwise be lost to teaching.The current system isn't working.Really good teachers are leaving in droves and the teachers remaining have lost the ability to care,a bit like increasingly disillusioned Gp's.

And somewhat ironically - given that this thread is about A level educated people teaching - the amount of the bursary depends on the class of your degree/level of your graduate qualifications. Those with a first or a PhD get the full 30k but you get less if you have 2:i and less again for a 2:ii.

Why would training in the classroom rather than by university/PGCE/Teach First stop teachers leaving in droves?

I think that adding A Level students to the ever-growing list of people the government are encouraging to "have a go" would be more likely to push out the established, qualified teachers.

"Many of my children's experienced teachers had lost energy,motivation and enthusiasm in my experience"

They'll lose more if they are training apprentices while teaching a class and juggling all the other aspects of the job

Set high A level grades for entry and include several days academic study weekly.

The problem with time out of the classroom for days of academic study, while it sounds reasonable is actually crap for classes and teachers in terms of continuity of teaching, and isn't good for teacher training - you need to teach long sequences of lessons, not just one-offs.

So what would be better would be long periods of time in the classroom, and long periods of time doing academic study. Like maybe, a degree then a PGCE.

Also, no one is going to advise someone with high A-levels to tie themselves into a teaching apprenticeship when the job has such a high rate of attrition. When they drop out, as most of them will, they'll be back where they started, except their high-flying peers will have a decent degree and an entry to a better job market.

Stunned by the ignorance of some people on this thread. Thank god the teachers here are talking sense.

I've had two operations and I have relatives who are doctors. Pass me the scalpel, guys, I've got this one covered...

This is the problem, some people think bright and buzzy is better than having excellent subject knowledge, experience and classroom mangagement. Unfortunately even the bright and buzzy people become disillusioned and fed up after a while, with constant changes, workload, government, Ofsted, changes to the curriculum etc. Give me the experienced teacher with excellent subject knowledge over an 18 year old anyday. They may be disillusioned, their lessons may not all be singing/dancing, but my DD will get a damm sight better education.

Schools direct is very hit and miss depending on the schools and isn't recognised overseas. An apprenticeship certainly won't be. There is a reason for that. It isn't good enough. There are no shortage of people wanting to go into teaching, the issue is keeping them and stopping them from getting disillusioned and going onto other things in the first place.

There's a reason the Government encouraged Schools Direct. It's precisely because it is not recognised abroad. That means those teachers are less likely to resign and move away from the UK.

To be honest Mrz your lack of respect for other professions is starting to get on my nerves now. Yes, teachers do a wonderful job. Yes, they deserve better pay, yes, the it to their pensions was shit. But please do not make it out to be the profession, because quite frankly there are many professions just as valuable. Comparing apprenticeship teachers to letting doctors practice with a levels and a first aid certificate is a huge insult.

Comparing apprenticeship teachers to letting doctors practice with a levels and a first aid certificate is a huge insult.

Why? Why do teachers deserve less respect than doctors?

To be honest Mrz your lack of respect for other professions is starting to get on my nerves now. Yes, teachers do a wonderful job. Yes, they deserve better pay, yes, the it to their pensions was shit. But please do not make it out to be the profession, because quite frankly there are many professions just as valuable. Comparing apprenticeship teachers to letting doctors practice with a levels and a first aid certificate is a huge insult.

FruitCider
Comparing apprenticeship teachers to letting doctors practice with a levels and a first aid certificate is a huge insult.

And comparing an apprenticeship to teaching isn't, I suppose at least we know where the boundaries are.

Huge insult to whom, cider?

I don't see any lack of respect for other professions, just a healthy and much-needed defence of teaching.

Comparing apprenticeship teachers to letting doctors practice with a levels and a first aid certificate is a huge insult

Why?

Teaching is a practical skill, yes? One that needs to be practiced? So why not make the training more work based rather than relying on 24 weeks combining shadowing, supervised practice and independent practice. I personally do not feel that only 24 weeks classroom exposure is enough.

Well, fruitcider, as has already been pointed out on this thread, it's not just 24 weeks "classroom exposure. There is also the NQT year, where there is much more intensive monitoring, and many PGCE courses require prospective students to have done at least 2 weeks school experience before starting the course. Of course, in practice, many will have done more than that, as they will have wanted to demonstrate their interest in the field.

And FGS teaching is not just a practical skill. It's not like, I dunno, gutting a fish that can successfully be learned by watching someone gut lots of fish then having a go yourself.

No FruitCiderteaching isn't a practical no