Plan for 18 year olds to become teachers with on the job training

[noblegiraffe]

So the government's bright idea to solve teacher shortages is not to make any effort to retain the teachers who are leaving in droves, but to allow people to train as teachers on the job with only A-levels.

Because acquiring a solid expertise in your subject first is totally overrated.

www.tes.com/news/school-news/breaking-news/exclusive-first-teaching-apprenticeship-planned

I think a lot of teachers feel that the route they took was the best one. I certainly feel this way about the PGCE, as that is what I did. I also am a fan on industrial experience, again, as that is what I had.

However, looking rationally, there are many ways already to become a teacher, and they work.

I am very sceptical about this proposal - but that is what it is - a proposal. It's come from within education and asking government to consider it. There are clever people who have thought this through and I think it is only reasonable that we should consider the pros and cons - without getting angry.

We aim to teach our student to think critically, as we should do that too.

No FruitCider teaching isn't a practical skill. It require academic knowledge ...do you know Piaget or Blooms taxonomy or what a schema is and how to recognise and use a child's schema to plan for individual needs? Do you the stages of cognitive development and how they relate to subject knowledge? Or even physical development relating to skills needed to writing? Speech and language development? Or any of the professional content of initial teacher training as part of a university course?

Just starting FruitCider?

It's come from within education

There are clever people who have thought this through

I'd like to know who those people are, and what their vested interests might be.

I was speaking to two head teachers about this yesterday who thought it was a dreadful idea/I'd love to meet who is proposing it.

And unlike you I have great respect for other professions please show some for the teaching profession rather than spout nonsense.

Clam the idea was submitted by a school business manager in a bid for funding under the trailblazing initiative. Apparently some heads said they were interested in becoming involved is seeing if it would work

From what was in the link I posted yesterday, if large schools are going to be required to hire a certain percentage of apprentices then of course they'll be thinking what on earth sort of apprentices they can have.

Then someone will have thought 'hey, Mrs So and So is a great TA and wants to be a teacher but is always saying that she can't afford to go to uni'.

Et voila. Policy.

the idea was submitted by a school business manager in a bid for funding

Right. As I thought, then!

We have a sport apprentice working in school

There are clever people who have thought this through

I would like proof of this statement.

Keep an open mind!

Why should we keep an open mind about an idea that sounds terrible? Look at troops to teachers...

Wow to teaching being a practical skill. It's highly academic and this aspect is quietly being diminished with the evermore "easy" routes to becoming a teacher.

Mrz We do as well, two of them. It's worked out well apart from the one who's crap and takes a day off whenever he has a hangover, which is often but they're not in total charge of classes at any point. They help with managing the behaviour of challenging kids at break-times (diverting problems before they arise), and help organise games at lunchtimes too. They do a number of after-school sports clubs and inter-school tournaments.

Different thing entirely to this plan, though.

mrz
We have a sport apprentice working in school

From what I can tell that leads to a TA position or sport leadership/coach in order to be competent in a school setting they have to do a level three.

GinandJag
Keeping an open mind if this was a remotely workable solution, even if it was thought through fully, when are teachers supposed to have the time to do it.

No Clam I wasn't suggesting that sports apprentices are the same, only that schools can fulfil the requirement for employing apprentices without going down the teaching route.

FruitCider

Teaching is a practical skill in the same way that nursing is just sticking a needle in someones arm, it is so much more.

No, I didn't think you were suggesting that; was just rambling really. But that's an interesting point about fulfilling quotas.

I've often seen teachers on MN complaining that there is no back-up for teachers when certain kids are kicking off in class. We have been able to use our Sports Apprentices (or one of them, anyway ) to call in and take them off to calm down/let off steam. Needs to be used carefully, so it's not seen as a treat or as an incentive for poor behaviour, but it's generally worked well.

Well Mrz, being as I'm a mental health nurse I would be a bit worried if I didn't know what a scheme is!

Of course the act of teaching is practical, it's something you do! The act of nursing is practical, however academia is needed for that. Of course that is currently being debated too with diploma vs graduate nurses.

Perhaps I haven't been clear. If an apprenticeship route can offer the same level of academia (such as the apprenticeship route currently proposed for nursing) as the traditional route, why is problematic? I still question why an undergraduate degree is needed to teach 5 year olds when it's quite clear people are more concerned about their children's teacher having life experience rather than the knowledge. Although they are happy to see 21 year old nurses run a 24 bed psychiatric acute ward, which completely baffles me.

A 21 year old nurse with three years training under their belt not an 18 year old fresh from the sixth form ...and I don't think anyone has mentioned psychiatric wards or being happy?

I won't pretend to understand schema therapy if you don't pretend to understand educational schemas

Fruitcider

So you are saying that not academic prowess/ability is needed for teaching?

Either what you have written shows little knowledge of teaching or its very badly written.

How will people learn subject knowledge; not just the subject knowledge of teacher training, but the actual subject content?

Also as an aside- I resent the posts that state or imply that teachers are always adverse to change. Teachers cope with huge changes and overhauls all of the time! We are beyond used to change. We are allowed to see problems with a scheme without being told 'change can be good'!!