Grammar Schools (given green light by Theresa May part 3)

[sandyholme]

Part 3 ... Let the sparring continue..

What makes you think the rest of us wouldn't "welcome grammars for the academic provision?" Whatever else do you think we are interested in?

Keeping their kids away from the low achievers and their disruptive behaviour and poor work ethic. Apparently.

Btw, my own DC goes to a private London day school for secondary. We pay the full fees and all the trimmings. Meeting the other families and seeing who is there is an eye opener. Aside from a couple of very poor token busars, there are a lot of people cocooned by wealth, as opposed to just high incomes. The DC there are lovely, the families are warm, kind and delightful. Typical, average, down to Earth it is not, however.

Meanwhile, I still live in the community that I have for the last 17 years. I am still involved in life in our "village." DC that I have known since they were mere dots, are at the local, leafy comp. Many are bright, sparky things with bags of potential. My own DC is pulling away from them at an alarming pace. After just a few years, I don't see how the gap will ever be closed. My own DC is simply being taught more and more rapidly.

It seems to me, that our local comp has had over thirty years, with no grammar school to compete with, to get its act together and deliver for the more able end. It's never succeeded. I support my neighbours and friends in wanting something better for their DC and what's more I think they deserve it.

I think that is just ascribing conveniently vile motives to people with whom you don't agree in a debate noble.

Not at all, Elly, there are plenty of posts on these threads that say exactly that. For example from yesterday:

Most people who have a bright kid, particularly who went through the experience of a comprehensive school in the 1980s, being only expected to be average and being bullied for being enthusiastic about lessons, want their kids to go to a school where all, or the very vast majority of the other kids, want to learn.

"There is no bullying for being bright though"
No. But my dd found being in bottom set for Maths made life a bit miserable. Being bullied for being thick is just as bad as being bullied for being bright. And in my experience is much more common in all sectors.

elly if that's the case for able dc at a leafy comp then what do you think it is like at non leafy comps? Which is why I don't agree the issue of affluent dc being behind the independent sector is remotely in the same league as the problem of less affluent able dc.

Again, I think able dc have just as much right to an appropriate state education as anyone else. I just disagree that within that able group the mc dc deserve or need it more.

Bowlandhigh isn't selective at all sandyholme. It is a comprehensive. One grammar in a wide area does not make all the other schools sec moderns.
There is one grammar in the area (only 4 in the whole county) for many Bowland is the first choice. Fantastic facilities. The 11 plus is not compulsory and majority choose not to sit. Only 2/3 of the grammar places are taken by in catchment children, rest are filled with children bussing in from nearby deprived areas with no grammar. Good example of a grammar happily co existing with other good schools. The other non 2 grammar schools locally are 67% 5 GCSEs A-c inc e and maths, so Bowland isn't a fluke. One is good one outstanding ousted again first choice for many in the area.

Dixie. The Dept of Education statistics state it as a ' Modern' school a term i hate because it bears no relation to such a school as Bowland High.

I was also being facetious when i described it as a selective 'Modern' school because obviously the school serves an 'relatively' advantaged cohort with only 3.3% FSM and a 73% GCSE pass rate.

There is also another interesting angle that has not been discussed about grammar schools .

This is the ones located in the North of England I.E Trafford, Wirral Lancs and North Yorkshire are not seen in the negative way those further south are !

They are seen to be an addition to a LA and not a hindrance to other schools in achieving good results.

I think this is important to understand that grammar schools in the North are a different animal to those in the South !.

They are generally seen in a positive note , even by those parents who don't have children at Northern Grammar schools.

What I want to know is where all the pupil premium children go!

Yes definitely my experience as mum of child about to go into yr 6 is the grammar is just another school. No one would be surprised at a white middle class child choosing not to sit and instead going to a comp like Bowland. The majority choose not to sit. If the model works well in Lancashire why can't it work like this elsewhere.

bertrand as well as Bowland there is the grammar, st Augustine's if Catholic or ribblesdale. A few travel out to Qegs Blackburn ( selective ex private now a free academy) There are no other state options locally. It doesn't follow that 1 grammar makes all the other schools awful. They are all ofsted good/outstanding.

Interesting. All the PP kids seem to be in the Catholic school...........

From ofsted dashboard 2014

Ribblesdale 12.3% fsm, 68% pass 5 A-C GCSE inc maths and english
St Augustines (criteria RC - baptised or at an RC school) 10% fsm 67% pass
Grammar 4.2% fsm 99% pass
Bowland 7.5% fsm 78% pass

I must have looked at the wrong St Augustine's!

So is the area just so incredibly prosperous that there are very few kids on FSM?

Bertrand FSM fairly evenly spread. St Augustines is ofsted outstanding, oversubscibed and a first choice for many. People move to be in catchment. Set in lovely countryside. It's catchment does include some parishes in nearby deprived town.

But the area must have a much lower level of FSM than the national average....

Ribble valley is generally affluent came 2nd in some best place to live poll recently. We are very close to some deprived towns with very poor school choices (that I posted about in thread 1). People actively move over the border to be catchment for the schools.

On the previous thread i posted evidence that showed Trafford out performed at GCSE level its 'Comprehensive' bordering local authorities.

Selective Wirral which includes 'Birkenhead' out performs its Comprehensive neighbor Cheshire West at GCSE 61.90% TO 58.30%.

Bertrand there are two examples of 'differing ' fully selective areas out performing their bordering non selective LA , that also probably have overall less deprivation than the two selective areas !

Dixie. Does Westholme now take boys who parents would have paid for QEGS !

No, bright kids can be challenging and disruptive in class as well, and yes, kids do get bullied for appearing to be less academically able though. It doesn't alter my argument. And I freely admit I was overjoyed when DD1 wanted to go to, and got into a different school from the one where the Y5 and Y6 kids who bullied her when she was in Y4 go. And who live on our street and are still nasty to other kids, including my younger daughter and her friends. That's not to say there won't be any trouble at the grammar, or any problems because they are all clever girls. I will be looking out for it.

Where I live the non-academically selective schools also do very well in terms of results and are popular with parents. There used to be one school that was really failing but it has gone now. For me at the grammars the results went without saying. It's the opportunity to unlock potential and confidence that appealed to me.