Does anyone else think their DC's private school is rubbish?

[Mynameismummy]

Ok...I'm asking for a pasting here, I know - but I'm desperate for some outside opinions. My DCs go to a private (primary) school which is full of the usual promises and blah blah blah. I'm cynical enough to accept that this is part of the territory....but they seem to fail on every score. It's academically so-so, the pastoral care is iffy and everything seems to be aimed at putting on a good show for the parents. Everyone else goes on about how marvellous it is (until you get them one to one when, funnily enough, they all seem to have a story of woe about how their child can't read/is being bullied etc). I wonder how much of it is the psychology of people liking to big themselves up and how much I'm the only one who sees how crap it is. Anyone else have a similar experience?

I'm sure you are right about that, SheGot, and job adverts for preps often specify that subject specialists need to offer a sport/music/drama in addition and a desire to contribute fully to the life of the school.

In France, college (middle school) and lycee are separated in the state system but only rarely in private schools. The direst secondary teachers end up in the state colleges.

Shegot, our experience was that in London prep schools did not do too badly recruiting maths/science teachers. And that the best teachers were often ones who had struggled when teaching in state comprehensives. You get longer holidays, often better pay, smaller and selected classes, no GCSE monotony, time for things like maths challenges, school gardening projects etc, and at least some each year preparing for the major 13+ scholarships.

What helps is enthusiam, and an enjoyment in being part of a school community. However ability to control classes and strong organisations skills may not be as critical as they would be in a busy secondary.

Watching this thread very carefully!

We originally went private because of job logistics rather than poor local primaries (we are in a Grammar area with catchment to one of the best boys' Grammars) so I have always felt a bit awkward in initially choosing that route just so I can keep my F/T niche job and pension! But it's working out very well.

We've just made it through pre-prep and DS is now in Y3. I really do mean 'we' as they expect parents to be 100% involved with their children's learning. I was dreading the move up a gear that everyone was telling me about, but DS loves all the subjects and it's been the easiest transition yet. The school emphasis is on breadth and everyone does everything: unlike with roguedad's experience there is indeed lots of sport which DS thinks is boring but not at the expense of academics or music or drama etc. I think we lucked out, and though the school is currently evolving quite rapidly, DS seems to be coping with it. Personality of a child helps of course - and not everyone can cope with an intensive all-rounder curriculum and a selective intake.

I think as with all these things, the fit of a child to a given school cannot be underestimated, and if the fit is wrong and it is possible to do so, move. If things go pear-shaped for us, I'll give notice like a shot. Best of luck, OP!

At the boarding prep where my DS's attended the teachers were expected to play hockey, teach their subject, coach the colts C crickets, be very nice to parents, direct plays, supervise Sunday outings, run BBQ's, attend all social functions, attend chapel every Sunday morning be on duty in the evening to organise extra curricular staff or the odd ad hoc cricket match eat every meal in school with the pupils etc etc. unsurprisingly young staff with lives outside of school didn't hang around long, leaving long in the teeth, very set in their ways older staff. Younger staff on a couple of occasions also told me that after a while beautifully behaved well mannered children with few real barriers to learning started to get a bit boring after a while!

There are some pretty mediocre prep schools with the bells and whistles of facilities but only occasional really good teachers with mostly one size fits all type of teachers (including for sport, music, art etc)
There are also more nuts and bolts type prep schools or private primaries that have less of an extracurricular package but deliver a good grounding in academics and value for money
Finally there are excellent prep schools (usually expensive and often boarding) who by reputation, location and methods to retain teachers get fantastic specialist teachers who often are multitalented for sport, music or drama and therefore contribute to whole school life.

We have experienced all three. We withdrew from the first. The last one made the last few years of prep school really worthwhile.

I agree that facilities can look fantastic but do not of themselves guarantee delivery of effective learning.

Lots of expensive international schools are beautiful and well-appointed but have serious recruitment issues.

trans I suspect geography plays a vital part.

DC's prep was situated in beautiful countryside. But actually it was also bang on the train line to la la land the city. So a veritable magnet for well educated relocators, young people who couldn't afford to live in town and overseas teachers in search of something new and exciting.

There are quite a lot of excellent preps within an hour's commute of London, in all directions. Some teachers commute from London to commuter belt schools.

And there was a steady movement of good young teachers from my DCs London prep to more senior, sometimes residential, positions in good Preps in a certain radius around London, as they started looking for affordable family housing. But this only reflects the normal movement of Londoners in any profession. Teachers are luckier because of the scope to find local jobs and continue their career progression.

And sometimes empty nesters then returned to take on Headships and the like.

From what I have heard from colleagues when working abroad, international schools can be difficult places especially when parents have a mixed range of expectations around education. The worst of all worlds. A school not delivering what you want and no choice.

DC have had a number of inspirational and memorable teachers. There were a few duds, either new recruits who then left quickly, or one or two who perhaps had been around too long and would have been difficult to lose, and this is from the age of 3+ up. The great thing has been a shared view of school as a community that you are expected to contribute to. I hope they retain the idea that contributing to their community, whatever it is, is important. Not just at school, but at University and beyond.

In some locations there will be a range of international schools and quite a lot of choice of systems (IB/British/American etc), religious or not etc. Teacher recruitment is really complicated though and even the most reputable schools seem to have very varied teacher quality.

Bobo, often it is not about system but about ethos. Different cultures have different views of childhood as well as of education, and even within cultures parents will have different priorities. Which is why in both France and the Uk there is a degree of choice, at least in the major cities. (And one person's "rubbish" school is another person's ideal learning environment.)

Many years ago there was instability in one apart of the world and the city I was in took a number of affluent refugees. Their children went to the international school and overnight the dominent playground language switched from English. I don't know what else was going on but my Spanish boss who was a Governor got involved in what appeared to be vexatious litigation by some parents. It all sounded awful. And with little other choice for a non German speaking child.

Similarly in Asia the British school attracted a number of local and third Country national parents who wanted their children taught in English. Given the Brits tended to be on three year contracts the dominent culture tended to be set by others and was very results orientated. This proved quite a shock for kids, say, moving from a standard state primary and who then had to adapt to a school cuulture where after school tutoring was the norm.

The French system is protected a bit by the need to speak French,. However there is always muttering amongst the French in London about how the system is used by ambitious London parents who see the Lycee as a cheaper and less selective option should their DC not get one of the big name private day schools.

All off topic, sorry, but perhaps illustration for OP that schools don't always suit, whatever sector and indeed whatever country.

"the great thing has been a shared view of school as a community which you're expected to contribute too"
As someone who'd rather boil my head than man a teddy bear stall so lack experience of this concept I'm genuinely curious to know what the term a "community which your expected to contribute too" means?

There was a private prep school up here in Scotland that parents liked but when the inspectors went in on the Friday they closed it and it didn't reopen on the Monday! The council was suddenly left with hundreds of kids to accommodate.

The Lycee in London is not academically selective but it has been incredibly oversubscribed for years. There are stringently ranked admissions criteria that do not include non-French London residents (ie British families) so I am not sure how anyone could see it as a back up option!

Ethos of international schools will tend to reflect the local schools market. In places like Paris, locals are not remotely interested in international schools (however hard those schools try to attract them) whereas in many locations there are rules barring locals from even attempting to apply, so great would be the demand.

happygardening - I think it's fine to participate and fine not to! DP and I are great joiners-in of our DCs' school communities but it doesn't bother me in the slightest whether parents do or not, providing they aren't undermining the DCs' education.

Happy. Its about turning up for the school team and training if picked, ditto with choir etc. If you audition for the schoolplay you are there at rehersals. If you are given a role with responsibility, perhaps being monitor for a class further down the schiool, you do it.

But that may just reflect the way I would like things to be. Education being more than just grades but being about producing a rounded individual. Seen as a priviledge and a responsibility.

There is a lot of "my child first" and "me first" around. Ranking people socially is at best tedious. but worse when it is based on the size of your bonus. A child is not better because they are at St Pauls rather than Emanuel, though at times you wonder. Having all A*s is an achievement, but so is sticking with volunteering over an extended period. It is fine to want to be a teacher or a health professional.

I don't know Winchester, but if the EC opportunities offered are limited to manning a teddy bear stall, it would not have been the school for us or DC, however good the results are.

Rant ended....

I think happy was asking about parental contribution to the school community.

I believe happygardening has just won the thread
As someone who'd rather boil my head than man a teddy bear stall
As a former PTA treasurer she has just made me spit my tea.

Schools are not "communities" - they are schools.
Kids are there for a few years and grow up and move on.
They hopefully take with them much more than just exam results in my case even that would have been nice
but they do leave.

Whether a school is a community or not depends on lots of things. But some schools are very much the hub of a community of families, with a strong culture and community ethos.

Needmoreslep one of the great joys of boarding is that as parents the most tedious onerous thing you have to do is turn up for sports day, there is no pressure to raise money for the PTA, drop your DC off for a play rehearsal or man the ubiquous teddy bear stall. I never have had any desire to be a parent who is part of the "school community" I'd rather fill my knickers with grit, I wish for my DS to be part of the school community.
Winchester prides itself on not just being about exam results, their whole raison d'être is to give the boys a broad intellectually stimulating education, so to acheive this the boys all through their school career have a daily non examined lesson covering a huge variety of topics, they only do 9 IGCSE's, there are lectures by outside speakers at least once a week, 30+ concerts a term, 5-6 plays a term and a myriad of extra curricular/sporting opportunities, boys also undertake voluntary work every week. Of course apart from the daily lesson/voluntary work all other activities are completely optional some will obviously grabs every opportunity others will carefully select what interests them other will do nothing it's their choice.
Thankfully they don't ask or expect parent to man teddy bear stalls because it's just not that kind of place.
As has already been said above we need to try and pick a school that suits us.

My DC have attended three schools between them. All have most definitely been communities.

The school, parents and pupils share common resources, intent and beliefs.

There is a connectedness that is as strong as that amongst other communities to which we belong.

I think private schools which families have very much selected for their DC lend themselves to being strong communities of the like minded. The stronger the school ethos, the greater the cultural buy-in.

Aha, then I have proof that my private school was rubbish as it failed in all of the above criteria.
Actually my junior school was fab and I've been back to events there but the secondary - never

I suspect if your DC's full board as parents you are less less likely to share common resources (what ever they are). By sending our DS's to the school it must mean we already share intent and beliefs; full boarding in general and Winchester in particular is not for those who wish to be very hands hand parents, when it comes to education. I and many others (I suspect) also lack the time to be very involved in the minutiae of school live I struggle to get down to school to pick him up for exeats and the end of term etc.

I think the sense of community involvement (by parents) naturally lessens the further up the school the DC go (although I will always be first to support school events and do my bit).

That's as it should be. The young people however, enjoy that strong sense of belonging, that common purpose, provided it doesn't become stifling.