Does anyone else think their DC's private school is rubbish?

[Mynameismummy]

Ok...I'm asking for a pasting here, I know - but I'm desperate for some outside opinions. My DCs go to a private (primary) school which is full of the usual promises and blah blah blah. I'm cynical enough to accept that this is part of the territory....but they seem to fail on every score. It's academically so-so, the pastoral care is iffy and everything seems to be aimed at putting on a good show for the parents. Everyone else goes on about how marvellous it is (until you get them one to one when, funnily enough, they all seem to have a story of woe about how their child can't read/is being bullied etc). I wonder how much of it is the psychology of people liking to big themselves up and how much I'm the only one who sees how crap it is. Anyone else have a similar experience?

Needsmore, my DS does loads of sport outside school as do most of his friends regardless of where they go to school. But within school there has been a huge change of emphasis in Y11 to concentrate on exams and the way teams are organised seems to facilitate this, so it must be the usual thing. DS's school actually sent an e-mail recently reminding parents that boys selected for Saturday teams can only be excused attendance by the deputy head. Likewise, there will not be a Y11 drama production kicking off at the start of the GCSE timetable.

I like to think that there are schools where exams aren't so important but in these days of league tables there is pressure to perform well in GCSEs in all schools, state or Indy and that is where the emphasis will be. Yes DCs have to have downtime and relax, but the focus is on the exams. The only exception seems to be boarding schools where they can still train everyday etc because they have so much more available time.

I am not complaining I am only saying it as I see it and for me the exam years are when DS has got the least benefit from the extracurricular side of his school. Something I didn't expect despite the warnings of Chalktalk.

A bit off thread OP but my DS had a fantastic time at prep and I hope you can find something similar for your DCs.

cake I'm not sure your experience is usual.

Both my year 11s at different schools were in sports teams all through winter ( summer athletics did excuse year 11s).

There were still productions, choir concerts and DofE.

And currently lower sixth form is super busy with EC.

"so it must be the usual thing."

Not in my experience of two London schools. Ditto with A level where Yr 13s are prefects, running house activities and expected to turn out for sport. DC are different, but mine would do less well if they don't have a chance to run around outside at least a couple of times a week. Whilst the leadership/managing younger children and peers in co-ordination with teaching staff, helps the acquisition of wider life skills. (DD is apparently failing to act when smaller children don't have their shirts tucked in. I suspect she is ambilelent, but needs to decide whether to take her role more seriously.)

Interestingly we are now seeing a big variation in what Universities are looking for. In medicine the Royal London are clear that academic performance evidenced by A level grades and predictions are very important, whilst Bristol say they want all-rounders. So I guess it is the same again at that stage. Choice, and a need to work out what suits you best.

Yes business as usual in year 11 here.

In fact I felt DDs school sailed a bit close to the wind if anything. Lead parts for the school musical for year 11s plus a DofE silver expedition during the Easter holiday .

I'd love to go to one of Buttercup's mums country dancing classes!

The Y11 calendar is dominated by events and presentations on Uni courses, subject choices, IB v A level etc. There are about 10 different things to attend. Not to mention the mocks and GCSEs themselves. DS's school is very academic and there is pressure to do well but I hear similar tales from state school parents that I have no reason to doubt.

Maybe I look back with rose tinted glasses but at prep school it seemed there was time for anything and the only concession to CE was not to arrange matches that week.

Good Luck OP it sounds like you need to look around a bit.

cake, things may be changing as increasing numbers head for the States. Ivies and others require candidates to be able to offer a lot more than straight academics (music, sport, leadership). Schools will be aware that increasing numbers of prospective parents from international backgrounds now ask about numbers going to top US schools, rather than about Oxbridge.

But again, some schools are very academic and focus on this. Other schools may be just as academic but encourage pupils to participate in a range of activities.

Its choice. Sixth form is interesting as you see pupils leave academic state schools like Tiffin for top privates and pupils from top privates switch to Tiffin. No catchments so academic pupils can choose. Obviously money is a factor, but for some the attraction is the wider education.

Watch out HellKitty - you'll be asked to teach!

cake I have had two DCs go through year 11, one at a very academic private the other at a very academic state. All school extracurricular activities continued pretty full on for the Y11 and sixth formers, except for the summer term at the state when the matches stopped once study leave started. No meetings about universities for the Y11s and in fact subject choices were left to reading booklets and asking for advice at a parent's evening or sixth form open evening (for the state). Grades at both the schools are excellent so haven't suffered from that approach and the DCs are generally good at working effectively whilst fitting what else they want to do in and out of school. Your experience would worry me about whether your schools were being too academically singleminded with the risk of dwindling longer term enthusiasm for learning and lost opportunities for non exam focussed experiences.

I would not use the word "rubbish" about what we've experienced in junior school, because we got a lot of care and some inspirational teaching in places, in addition to having our kids rescued from a dire state primary that resolutely failed to teach our kids to their ability. But I have tired of the holistic tripe, hostility to academic focus and the inane obsession with sports at the expense of everything else, particularly music. We will be looking for a much better fit at senior level, particularly in terms of giving our kids choice about how they spend their extra-curricular time, and having some real academic focus, rather than being told bad-habit-forming rubbish like there's no need to revise for exams. "Rugby is not a subject" is my motto after what we've been through. I guess we did not realise just how much diversity there was in terms of culture and have learned something about needing to pay more attention to "fit".

roguedad Interesting post - strikes a chord!

I agree with Roghuedad about state primaries who "resolutely failed to teach our kids to their abilities" and in fairness the prep was definitely a big improvement. But I did find that in a smallish non selective prep if your are particularly able at math a subject then ultimately we're back to the same old thing of you being the only one, even if the prep does set for ability in a year group with only 30 then statistically it's inevitable and teachers never want to cater for only one, I also think that if your that good at a subject you need others like you to spark off.
As rouguedad says it's about "fit" but sadly I'm actually not that sure there is that much diversity in independent education or state ed for that matter once you peel back the clever marketing and the window dressing, because most people are paying for results, schools know this. I think we've been lucky, DS's school notoriously walks to its own drumbeat (some don't like this) but it has created a very successful niche in an over crowded market so it's able to do it.

Whilst it's always worth trying to find the best fit for your child ( and paying gives you more chance of finding it ) it's also worth accepting that no matter how much you pay, it is not an individual tailor made experience.

School is an institution.

Not all children will fare well in the environment of a service delivered at a macro level. This is not the fault of the institution.

I've always approached my DC's education as my responsibility. School is one resource I use. Yes, I have made every effort to secure the most suitable resource but it is by no means the only one.

And indeed as my DC have got older they have begun to take their own responsibility for their education which is as it should be I think.

Maybe I'm way off mark here but I would have thought a prep would have at least wanted to enhance an ability for the reflection on themselves to some extent? Eg with maths making a big song and dance about entrance/ achievement in the primary maths challenge etc.

Your right ShesGot no school can cater the individual completely but it's good to find one where the overall ethos is where possible compatible with that of the child and IMO as importantly the family. So for example it's no good sending a rugby loathing sensitive soul to a macho man up rugby obsessed boarding school. If you or your DC loath meaningless ritual and out dated ridiculous uniform then neither of you are ever going to be happy in a school with long coats boaters and gowns and endless pomp and ceremony. Of course we all have to compromise but it never ceases to amaze me at the number of people who fail to ask pertinent questions about things that clearly really matter to them or their DC whether it be the existence of golf courses, whether it's full boarding or not, or regular Sanskrit lessons and then moan that X is not available.

Certainly DC's prep was very good at stretching able pupils across the board.

DS won a scholarship to a very selective school so his achievement in quite a few subjects must have been high.

That said its primary school. Even those that supposedly 'select' at 3/4 get a reasonable spread of ability so there is less critical mass of high ability children than at secondary.

Also, many many parents do not want an academically intense experience for their young children however clever they are.

They value the sport, the art, the drama. I certainly did.

Lurked of course preps want to academic success and my DS certainly gave them that but that's where it begins and ends, when DS2 got his entrance exam results the head virtually said "what were you complaining about he's done very well" and for most subjects I wasn't complaining (too much) but for math he should have done better in fact the school should have been embarrassed that he didn't do better. Five years down the line it doesn't matter but at the time it was frustrating and rather sadly turned him off math because the teaching was mediocre and he was bored stiff. IME many prep teachers particularly in math are at best set in their ways but I suspect there are recruitment difficulties for prep schools and math teachers and as I said even with setting for ability in a small school teachers are still teaching quite a range of abilities even in "top set".

As you may know I very much value art sport etc, and I'm not asking for an "intense academic experience" but I hated to hear my DS who's outstanding at math saying at 12 he's "bored stiff and it's his worst subject".
This is perhaps one of the drawbacks of a very small non selective 13+ prep? We can all be clever in retrospect.

Recruiting really good specialist teachers in schools that don't go up to 18 is a problem everywhere. Prep schools/middle schools in every country have to contend with this.

I was just thinking that compared to a state primary, a prep would have more incentive to provide for the most able. Dds state primary gained virtually nothing from what they provided for her. They did it because they were a fantastic school, but if they hadn't chosen to, there was nothing in it for them. I was thinking a prep school who weren't bothered about catering to the individual would still be motivated by the boasting rights. Eg all dds got from it was what for them is rare l6. Everything else they did, only I, dd and they are aware of. And now I assume her senior school know because of reports and what they've seen since term started. I was thinking a prep might have done similar for the motivation of being able to plaster everywhere what they were providing, when she actually reached l6, the standard she was really at finishing y6, when and what she did in maths challenges etc.

Although I imagine even with a smaller ability range, it doesn't always follow you'll get the skill and leadership to differentiate across it, or even the skill to see there is a big gap between the traditional top set ability, and the most able. And I have very little knowledge of prep schools and what the common concerns are, so I was just assuming.

More choice and power if you're paying, but I agree hard to know what to choose before you know their ability and personality, and you can only choose from what's available nearby, till you get to boarding age and/or the financial option of boarding.

Yes I'm sure it is if your passionate about your subject and I believe it's possible to passionate about math teaching at prep and preparation for CE/entrance exams must be as boring as hell!!

Lurked yes preps do very much want to publicise successes e.g. this year we got three pupils into this very prestigious boarding school but IME their academic aspirations for the pupils don't necessarily extend beyond this.
Most 13+ preps exist to prepare pupils for entrance into senior school via various entrance exams their infra structure is geared up to this, as are the teachers. Don't get me wrong it was still miles better than anything a state primary could provide.
Having spent too many years to count with DS's in independent ed of some description I'm very aware that no school is perfect regardless of how much you pay.

Maths and MFL must be dire to teach in preps and middle schools. English, history, geography and science much less so as it much easier to be creative in those subjects at an earlier stage.

Fair comment happy.
(With the exception of any state primary. I agree Dds didn't provide as well as lots of preps would, but from what you say about your experience they provided more in terms of maths than some preps. Although I do think I hit state system gold there despite what ofsted or league tables say, so perhaps a red herring)

I think the teachers who thrive in preps and probably get the most out if pupils are those that buy into the broad experience aspect if it ( as opposed to focussing on one specialism IYSWIM).

So a music teacher who is also a mad footie fan and has got himself qualified and is willing to help coach the first eleven will probably enjoy his job more.

Retention is also aided by the super long holidays of course .

But hats off to them all. I certainly couldn't do it!