tell me about a 'privileged' education

[Frostycake]

If you attended a grammar or private school or if you teach in one (or taught in one), tell me what I may have missed by having a comprehensive education in the 1980s.

I sometimes see glimpses of the education I could have had if circumstances had been different for my parents (the recent TV series on Harrow, meeting and working with people who went to Oxford, Cambridge, Malvern College etc.) and I often wonder what it is I missed out on apart from the obvious opportunities and overflowing confidence and maturity this type of education seems to instill in pupils.

Come and talk to me about the detail as I'm bursting with curiosity.

I went to a grammar in the early 80's, but don't see it as 'privileged'. It was a state school, full of bright girls, some of whom wanted to work and others who didn't. I had just come off free school meals when I started there, so not exactly wealthy. The school gave a steady education, in standard subjects. I think it did give me the opportunity for a better life than if I had gone to the secondary school which was the alternative. However, the facilities were nothing like those that my DH recalls of his 'not particularly special' private school that he went to at about the same time. Nether of them could hold a light to the facilities on offer at the range of secondary schools I have visited over the last 3 years for my 2 DCs.

Thanks Seeline.

Which subjects were taught? What sort of school trips were you offered? Did you do much in the way of extra-curricular activities? have your peers gone on to do great things (or marry well)?

I had a truly awful comp state education. But have worked in prestigious boarding schools.

It's ethos you have missed out on. You weren't taught in small enough groups to get the kind of individual attention that private school kids get. That's why they are confident they've had the benefit of a really high staff ratio and lived in a culture of taking pride in their school.

Lottiedoubtie In what way was your comp awful?

yes, in junior school, my class size was roughly twenty pupils but as soon as I moved to the comp it went up to 28 and then 32 including several highly excitable and sometimes violent individuals.

The 'cool' kids used to drink with the younger teachers once they reached fourth and fifth year (normally after hockey, football, tennis, football).

I went to grammar school in the '80's. I blew a lot of my opportunities if I'm truthful which I vaguely regret, it was an all girls grammar run by nuns and I bloody hated it and often wondered how I would have turned out in a different environment.

I was never ambitious though and only ever wanted to travel around the world and bum around really. Interesting to ponder whether I would have been just the same at a comprehensive.

The behaviour wasn't too bad, I would imagine that was the main plus side as far as I was concerned although I managed to find the 'bad' crowd at college !

Hope that makes you feel a bit better?!

"Have your peers gone on to do great things (or marry well).
Obviously I can't speak for all who put the children through "privileged" education but none of the parents I talk to seem to have these two things especially the latter high on their wish list for future outcomes.
Let's be realistic few go onto to do great things however well or not they were educated. There are only a limited number of Ghandis, Mandellas, Einsteins and Darwins.
I'm not sure what marrying well means, being happy in a marriage is an understandable desire for our DC's but wanting our DC's to marry well in 2015? I don't think so.

What is it you think you missed out on?
What are you trying to get for your children?

Anybody who had a 1980s "ordinary" grammar school education , had a privileged one ,compared to the worst school in Kent I attended.....

Happygardening by 'marrying well' I meant relative to the dates I mentioned when I was at high school (so 1980s) when, certainly in my back water in the Midlands, the expectation for girls at my school was to work as a nurse or teacher (at best) or go into office work/factory work until we got married and had children. There was never any discussion about a career; simply jobs until we got married. I realise that things have changed drastically since those days but my comment relates to the early 1980s. I remember college being dismissed as a waste of time for women back in those days as it was assumed that we'd all get married and stay at home.

Lottiedoubtie In what way was your comp awful?

Behaviour was terrible- more than one stabbing during my time there, drugs dealt in my form room, alcohol/knives regularly brought to school. As well as low level constant class disruption.

I was a 'good' kid and I aimed to do no work in the first and last 15 minutes of our hour long lessons.

Huge school - 1000+ on a site designed for 600.

Teaching was a mixture of excellent/fair/poor with the vast majority of it fair at best.

34% of my cohort left with 1 or more gcse.

I left with 12 A-C. I was a rarity. But at a decent school I would have left with 8 or 9 at A*-B and I would have had a much better grounding for my career!

University was my saviour. I can now 'pass' as educated, and indeed teach in prestigious schools.

But there are gaps, huge gaps.

Written grammar being one ^^ I can do it much better when pushed, but it isn't instinctive- and so whilst I cope at work in situations like this when I'm typing and watching the baby... Not so much!

Many of my teachers were Oxbridge graduates, and in some respects Oxbridge was "normal" (the discussion wasn't whether Oxbridge, but which college). As were daily chapel services, prefects in gowns who has special privileges, odd names for parts of the school day, Saturday school, CCF, lots of sport, lots of co-curricular or "activity afternoons", compulsory community service. Usually close relationships with a couple of key teachers especially in 5th and 6th form. Don't think that there were many unusual subjects other than possibly Latin and Greek. But we did have weekly lectures from external speakers in senior years as well as a lot of public speaking and debating, which also included lessons on giving an after dinner speech etc. Oh and we all had to learn bridge as well. And tennis. Several of my teachers are still there (though similarly for my state primary), and I get odd invites back to retirement dinners.

Several of my peers have had their first gongs. So far the highest is a CBE I think. See a few classmates on TV from time to time.

Which subjects were taught? What sort of school trips were you offered? Did you do much in the way of extra-curricular activities? have your peers gone on to do great things (or marry well)?

The curriculum was standard English , maths, choice of French, German or Spanish, Geog, History, RE, 3 sciences, cookery, needlework, art, music. At O level we had to do 2 eng, maths, at least one science (CSE was an option), at least one language and a humanity - nine in all. Some girls stayed for the 6th form, some did a tying/shorthand course others did 2/3 A levels (with the odd one doing 4).
School trips were few and far between. I think there was a Med cruise in the second year, but my parents couldn't afford that. We had a couple of days for geog, and I did A level geog so had a week residential. Other than that there was the odd trip to a museum.
Extra curricular - I was rubbish at sport so didn't play on any teams. I belonged to a choir and an orchestra. Wasn't much else going on - the odd art club, chess etc. TBH my DDs primary has a much better range of activities.
I am not aware of any of my peers exceeding at anything - not really in contact with many of them. I haven't a clue who they married.
Class sizes were about 30 until we got to A level then they varied from about 12 to 20 depending on subject. We were not really encouraged to consider further education or careers.
Teachers didn't really know us or inspire us. I met one of my teachers who taught me for A level - I'd actually gone on to do a degree in her subject - 4 years later she didn't have a clue who I was.
Bad behaviour happened. Girls got expelled. Girls got pregnant. I don't think that being a grammar made it anything special.

I went to two secondary schools - both state schools. This was the 70s

My first secondary school (years 1-3) was very large ; 2000+ pupils. It was a bit rough, a lot of bullying and fighting, but did have some excellent teachers. Probably about 10 of my contemporaries are household names from showbiz or sport. Actually, if you add in politicians make that 12. I had a talent for languages; careers adviser told me I could be a bilingual secretary.

My second was a very small rural high school where I had to board during the week. Fantastic ethos, teaching very thorough.. You were very much encouraged to find what your strengths were and follow your dreams. Just about everyone who wanted to, got to university. Can't think of any celebrities - from any alumni! I went on to study law.

I wouldn't say either was better than the other. I have married very well - my DH is a programmer who adores me and would do anything for me. Can't really marry any better than that. Didn't meet him at school though!

The police actually came in to my school "pleading" with the school not to "expel" anyone. This is because every time someone was expelled a "crime" wave would descend upon the shops!
. The police view was that it was better the school dealt with them rather than them.

The Curriculum consisted of Maths/English and anything the teacher could think of , though we never got through more than 20 minutes in any lesson without a fight breaking out in the classroom(in all of the five years I was there). Drink and Drugs were evident , the school just pretended that they did not exist though teachers would share Fags with anyone over 11.

Anybody who went to a grammar school was privileged. I keep telling DD2 how lucky she is going to a grammar school in 2015...

I went to a private school, I don't think you missed anything when I compare my private school education to my ds's state comp education. In fact, I think it's the other way round, I can see many ways that his education is better than mine.

We had smaller classes and nice sports facilities, but I was never sporty anyway and my sons classes aren't that big by the time they've been out in sets. There were good trips on offer, but nothing that isn't also on offer at our comp nowadays.

It was an all girls school and behaviour was terrible, the teachers just didn't know about it. We learned how to lie and manipulate and how to hide our misdemeanours very well. When we were caught, there was reluctance to tell parents because the school had a reputation to uphold and they had to keep the fees coming in.

I went to private school in the 80s/90s. An all-girls from 11-16 and a mixed one from 16-18.

They were very different schools, the all-girls one was pretty mediocre tbh. I think I'd have got just as good an education at the grammar my mum wanted me to go to (my dad wanted me to go private, so I did). The mixed one I went to for sixth form was great though - such cool, switched on teachers, all highly educated, really inspiring people. I loved that school.

I think the main advantages are probably small class sizes and just the expectation that everyone would go on to university. Hardly anyone didn't. We were educated to believe that we could and would achieve and that hard work would get us through - and in most cases it did.

Which subjects were taught? All the standard English, maths, 3 sciences, hist, geog, French, German, Spanish, Latin, Greek, theatre studies, CDT, business studies, economics, art, ceramics, art history (and probably other things I've forgotten).

What sort of school trips were you offered? Russia, exchanges to whatever country's language you were learning, ski trips, field trips for geog, art trip to Greece ... can't really remember tbh!

Did you do much in the way of extra-curricular activities? I was in lots of plays and I sang in the choir.

Have your peers gone on to do great things (or marry well)? Some and some. The most famous guy I know I was at uni with, but I'd say most of the people I was at school with have done well, got professional jobs, own their homes, some privately educate/some not, all are pretty solidly middle class still.

I went to a Girls Grammar in the 80s. From my experience you probably haven't missed out on anything.

I think Grammar schools are great if you have a goal or some idea of what you wanted to do. I had no clue at all. I left with good GCSEs but didn't finish my A'Levels. Left after 6 months in 6th form and went to a Secretarial College. I got a YTS placement at 16 and have worked eversince in jobs I've hated, but that pay well. All of which I could have done if I'd gone to the local comprehensive.

It's only now that I'm nearly 41 that I've realized what I want to do and am working towards that goal. I won't do a degree though, I hate studying and I think maybe that was always my problem.

I would have been happy marrying young and being a housewife. But that wasn't to be. I didn't marry until 34, had DD at 35 and now can't have anymore. I would do everything differently if I had the chance again. DD is bright but I'm not pushing her down the Grammar School route. I just want her to do a job she enjoys. You can have the best education in the world but if you don't know what you want to do and are never shown the real options, you won't be happy. Believe me I know...

Some of these stories about school experiences sound amazing, such as choir, gowns, trips to Russia, Latin and Greek taught but the most significant thing I think is the teaching of public speaking and debating, we never had that. It was definitely a case of sit down, shut up and do your work. I get sweaty at the thought of public speaking even now; I just don't have the confidence after being told I was rubbish and would amount to nothing so many times whilst at school (and I was clever and in the top form but lazy as everything seemed pointless). Five people from our year went to University so five percent. The school was relatively small - 800 pupils - but still a shock to the system after a village primary.

Some people from my school did well though, in my peer group there is a famous artist, an actress, a stock-broker and a renowned scientist. They all came from wealthy families though so I'm not sure if it was the school or good parenting and talent which gave them the edge.

Lottie you sound as if you've made it despite the odds. Well done. Mine wasn't that bad. I certainly wasn't aware of any drugs or knives but I think the things I experienced and witnessed such as bullying, sexual assault, harassment, aggression and disruption and destruction of my work contributed to making me tough and determined.

Oh Elsa that's sad. What a waste of talent and opportunity. I hope you find something you enjoy. From what I've seen, it really helps having people around you who know who you are and what talents you have and how you might make best use of those talents.

I was at a state grammar school in the '90s. It probably now qualifies as what's often called 'super-selective' on here - lots of tutoring for the entrance exam, about a dozen applicants for every place, children commuting long distances to get there. (Was a little more laid back in my day, although I suspect it's a bit of a exam factory now!) Prior to that I also attended a local comprehensive for six months, which was well-regarded but not lighting any fires academically.

I remember noticing a big difference in ethos, atmosphere and expectations between the two. Because (broadly) the pupils at the grammar school were motivated, wanted to be there and were pretty much guaranteed to pass the exam anyway, the teachers could relax to some extent and teach way above and beyond the curriculum. We had many incredibly well-qualified, inspirational teachers with Oxbridge degrees and PhDs - their excellent subject knowledge meant that they'd often go off on tangents, so we'd end up learning a load of stuff that wasn't on the curriculum as well as what we were meant to be studying. I remember my English Lit teacher being so astounded that we'd never heard of Sophocles that she organised a class trip to see Oedipus Rex at the National, even through it was totally unrelated to our GCSE course. Going on to Oxbridge or a 'good' university was seen as entirely normal - there was a huge sixth form and about 30-40 kids went to Oxbridge each year.

There was also a big focus on the 'extras' - music, sport, drama were all done at a very high standard. For music we had four full orchestras, chamber orchestra, concert band, various string quartets, junior and senior choirs, madrigal group, barbershop choir - even a gospel choir for a while. About 70% of pupils played at least one instrument. School trips wise, as far as I remember there were exchanges to France, Germany, Russia and Italy (I did the German ones), field trips to places like Iceland, a sports trip to Barbados (everyone wanted to go on that one!) and a Sixth Form ski trip to France. The school also had its own field centre in Wales that each class visited twice for team building/adventure activities etc.

Lots of school traditions - Speech Day, Founders' Day, House system, school song etc. Also lots of supportive, involved parents who donated generously to school funding appeals, which meant the facilities for all these things were pretty decent by state school standards. Classes were pretty large though (always around 30) and pastoral care wasn't great - if you couldn't keep up you were likely to be ignored rather than supported. It was very much sink or swim, and I know a couple of people who did fall through the cracks.

Then I went on to a university that took a high proportion of its students from public schools and discovered a whole other level of privilege - I spent the whole of my first term in awe of their public school polish and self-assurance!

• I spent the whole of my first term in awe of their public school polish and self-assurance!

this is exactly what I'm talking about. It's that easy, effortless self-confidence that just can't be faked. It's lovely to see if you're not used to it.

... goes off to Google Sophocles ...

Sorry, missed the 'marrying well/doing great things' bit!

Most of my school friends now have 'solid' professional careers - GPs, teachers, solicitors, accountants, civil servants etc. A few academics. Not many have gone into creative or 'glamorous' jobs though, whereas plenty of my public school-educated university peers have gone down the BBC/PR/publishing/writing/acting/musician route. Partly I think that this is because we were very much encouraged to make safe, sensible career/degree choices, but I also think that while my school gave us an amazing academic background, it didn't give us the same level of self assurance or 'social capital' that I see among my privately educated peers. The few school friends I know who do have more 'glamorous' careers already had family connections in the industry - I think 'Who You Know' still counts for an awful lot.

I went to a highly prestigious independent girls school, one of the best.

What did it give me?

-Well, very good teaching in small groups. Extremely well prepared for exams
-All girls school and no sexism/sexual overtones at school, and an amazing sense that you could do anything you wanted to do. Entitlement I suppose, but in a positive way, if you want to be the CEO of a huge company, you can, just work hard.
-sense that a good education is all that is required to change the world. Despite it being an independent school, this was quite an anti-class sentiment
-but, I also rubbed shoulders with a lot of girls from many backgrounds and it let me with the feeling that it was a club I was very happy not to belong to. Not any particular girls, just I suppose the myth was blown away that money makes you nice, or kind, or clever or anything else. I have spent my life working for charities, living overseas etc. Never meet any of my old school friends. Wouldn't know what to say to them. They would consider me to be a 'failure' by the schools standards of success. But as I don't buy inot their standards, that is fine by me.

(to be fair, their criteria for success isn't that different to the rest of the worlds)

Ladymuck, may I ask which school this is?

I remember noticing a big difference in ethos, atmosphere and expectations between the two. Because (broadly) the pupils at the grammar school were motivated, wanted to be there and were pretty much guaranteed to pass the exam anyway, the teachers could relax to some extent and teach way above and beyond the curriculum.

my son has just started at a super selective grammar. he loves it and ^^ this is the reason we sent him. I would say so far that this is true, ethos to work, ethos that being clever was cool, expectation of sucess