tell me about a 'privileged' education

[Frostycake]

If you attended a grammar or private school or if you teach in one (or taught in one), tell me what I may have missed by having a comprehensive education in the 1980s.

I sometimes see glimpses of the education I could have had if circumstances had been different for my parents (the recent TV series on Harrow, meeting and working with people who went to Oxford, Cambridge, Malvern College etc.) and I often wonder what it is I missed out on apart from the obvious opportunities and overflowing confidence and maturity this type of education seems to instill in pupils.

Come and talk to me about the detail as I'm bursting with curiosity.

Up thread too tired to find it but they have.

Confidence, especially when speaking in public, requires content - something that you know a lot about and that interests your audience. You cannot divorce confidence from content, any more than you can divorce analytical skills from content.

The broader education eg French, for some of the privately educated they have not only been exposed to the language but the culture also since they were toddlers going on ski trips, chateau hols etc(this is from a some I know) so French culture & language comes naturally to them as they have had first hand experience, this all adds to a "broader education" & learning outside the syllabus. Of course these experiences are open to anyone who can afford it, it's just the ones I know happend to be public school educated

That's not about the education per se, it's about having money. If you're saying 'richer people go on posh holidays more and also tend to pay for private education' there is a link, of course.

I went to a private school that had only recently allowed girls in. I quite often see it mentioned here as a school people would like their dc to go to, which makes me chuckle slightly.

It was a chaotic sort of school but we did do lots of different activities. Running around with a gun for example, some very odd teachers who taught nothing at all, but also some very good ones. An olympic swimmer taught us swimming. Some people did extremely well. For others it was a waste of money. It's a gamble.

How am I different to my siblings who went to the local comp? I have confidence in my abilities more I think even though I'm not the cleverest of them. I can and have passed any exam I wanted to. But along the way I lost my love of learning. I'm a bit like a factory chicken when it comes to learning. I can cram it in for when it's needed, then I dispose of it.

High expectations I suppose. And any bullies/low achievers were expelled. I'm probably no different to anybody else. I doubt I read any more widely than you did. But I was made to stand up and speak up. My first French A level lesson I was asked to give a talk on the government in China in French. I couldn't do that now. But I had a go then.

I think my wider understanding of life/business/the universe came from university.

Bonsoir, that's exactly right. I posted above about DH's brilliant (but fear-inducing) public speaking. I maybe failed to stress that presenting in front of a quarterly Powerpoint display causes him no grief at all. It's when he is expected to be funny (weddings etc) or original (professional bodies etc) that he suffers. The content then is his.

FrostyCake

I read your post and thought of this ... sorry for being silly .....

"So apart from the great facilities and willing pupils and capable staff, the main thing I appear to have missed out on is the self-assured air which comes from being told that you are capable, bright and deserving of good things in your life, instead of, as happened at my comp, being told that you're worthless, good for nothing, will amount to nothing, being caned by teachers and attacked by pupils and raised as a shop/factory worker.
"

My DS is due a couple of GCSE results today.

If he does well I shall say his school is terrific. If he doesn't I shall demand a refund!

MN167 yes, I admit that my statement does have an air of Monty Python about it! Ungrateful so and so I am. Complaining about what I didn't get instead of being thankful for what I did get.

Frosty -

I saw it as ... Private schools, what have they ever done for us .... well apart from .... etc etc. i.e. ramming home the huge advantages of private school.

It wasn't meant to make you feel as though you were ungrateful for what you had! Not at all. I think you are totally justified to feel that others had more than you and to wonder how this came to be?

"The broader education eg French, for some of the privately educated they have not only been exposed to the language but the culture also since they were toddlers going on ski trips, chateau hols etc(this is from a some I know) so French culture & language comes naturally to them as they have had first hand experience"
Loving the idea that French language and culture comes naturally because of the holidays. Presumably Spanish language and culture comes naturally to everyone who spends 2 weeks a year on the Costa del Sol?

Anyway I thought all private schools were full of people who drove beaten-up old Volvos and only went on camping holidays, in order to sacrifice themselves on the altar of private ed? You can't have it both ways.

I remain doggedly underimpressed by many of my privately educated university contemporaries. And the ones who were impressive happened to be impressive on account of being rather brilliant rather than the particular form of education they'd received. I'm an arrogant forriner, though, ignore me.

Do we need to untangle "privilege" from "good" though?

For example, anyone living in the catchment area for schools like Dame Alice Owen or Camden School for Girls has a "privilege" by living next to one. By extension, anyone in the catchment area for a "good" school to the exclusion of those outside the area also have the same "privilege".

From another point of view, to have a "privilege" it needs to be exclusive. Many private schools are not totally economically exclusive as they have bursaries - yes I know it's usually only 1 in 10 - but it isn't "exclusive" to the rich as a result. It is "exclusive" for kids that can pass an 11+. It is also "exclusive" to a thin layer that can't afford fees and don't quality for a means tested bursary.

I look at all sorts of schools with all sorts of selection. I try to focus on the "good" schools. They are all "privileged" in some sense.

Maybe the beaten up old Volvo brigade all speak fluent Cornish?

Ah, yes, back to the cliché that the only good comp is a leafy comp...

Oh I make no claims to driving a beaten up old Volvo or taking camping holidays (a winnebego warrior trip across California is the nearest I've been, and frankly won't be repeated).

I just read an interesting article. It points out that state education is both free and compulsory. Therefore, parents and children don't "buy into it," they are "forced into it." This simple fact impacts the attitude of all the participants negatively.

By simply paying for school; meeting a faith requirement; or studying hard to pass a test to qualify for a place; or ducking and diving to get a house in the right place, children and families are "buying in." They've had to affirmatively choose the school and put out some effort. This makes a huge difference in how the children value their own learning and experience their education.

It really is food for thought. Here is a link to the article for anyone interested:

www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2015/03/why-im-a-public-school-teacher-but-a-private-school-parent/386797/

It's written by a public school teacher in California. In the USA public school = state school. It's a different place, but so much sounds familiar.

If this is part of what state schools are lacking, I am not sure how we could address it, though.

In My Glorious Reign, the word "Leafy" will only be permitted as the name of a dormitory at The Chalet School...........

MN I think it is definitely a privilege to have a good school available to you.

Provision is so patchy in the UK, and things change so quickly.

I doubt any of us feel our DC inherently deserve a place at a good school where others are undeserving.

The school mother sends her DDs to is single sex. You can't get more exclusive than that. It excludes half the population on their genitalia .

Since her DDs have done nothing to be born without a penis, you can hardly call it anything other than privilege, can you?

Truedat, WF. I totally hold my hand up to that one. I can point out it wasn't my policy to make a number of our local comps single-sex, but yes they are taking up a place where a Y-chromosome disqualifies you.*

Springisontheway, just because parents pay for something doesn't necessarily mean the kids value their education. But then I do rather resent this idea that my children, by virtue of going to a state school, are merely shambling reluctantly to an institution which confines them till home time whereas their peers at the posh school down our road are bouncing in agog and alive with Commitment and Zeal.

*Disclaimer: not counting transkids and those with XXY syndrome, obvs.

I went to an all girls grammar. Boys in sixth form. Bit of a shock to the system for all involved!

I cant' remember the size of the classes but think it was about 25. We had an amazing headmistress who actually taught us Architecture. She was highly knowledgeable, interested in everything and very gracious. It is with hindsight that I appreciate her. Also Latin, domestic science, needlework was available and a wide ranges of games were taught - hockey, lacrosse, I even remember playing shinty, tennis, swimming onsite plus the usual gym.

I never remember considering not going onto do a degree and didn't bother with Careers advice - it was just assumed I would do A levels.

We had some wonderful teachers and some ok ones. It was very strict - no eating outside in school uniform and basically no messing around when representing the school.

There was a house system, sports days, prefects etc and weekly assemblies where we said prayers and sang. Cant quite remember about trips etc but I am sure there were some offered. Sixth Form had a house next door to school so we had some independence.

It was a fantastic school and I am grateful I went there. Not sure it produced lots of high flyers but it produced lots of pretty successful women. I am still in touch with several and we all have fond memories of our time there. I would say it gave me a lot of confidence and a great education. We were considered to be one of the posh schools in town.

mother did you read the article? You obviously don't have to do so, but just curious.

I don't think the point was necessarily paying with money, but having to do something to make an active choice. This active choice helps combat a "too cool for school" attitude. Just a few contemptuous kids in a class can inhibit the rest. I was clearly making no comment about your individual children.

Yes I have read it: and I disagree with it. And the shambling was collective, not personal.

My dc have a very privileged education that wasn't available when I was at school.

They attend a GMA school (Gaelic Medium Education). Despite dh and I being monolingual, we have 3 fluently bilingual dc. They have all the huge benefits of being bilingual.

The school motto is "Da Canan, Da Colthur, Iomad Cothrom" ("Two Languages, Two Cultures, Many Opportunities").

It's hard even to buy that in the government sector, or even privately!

shambling?