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Education

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tell me about a 'privileged' education

364 replies

Frostycake · 03/03/2015 14:28

If you attended a grammar or private school or if you teach in one (or taught in one), tell me what I may have missed by having a comprehensive education in the 1980s.

I sometimes see glimpses of the education I could have had if circumstances had been different for my parents (the recent TV series on Harrow, meeting and working with people who went to Oxford, Cambridge, Malvern College etc.) and I often wonder what it is I missed out on apart from the obvious opportunities and overflowing confidence and maturity this type of education seems to instill in pupils.

Come and talk to me about the detail as I'm bursting with curiosity.

OP posts:
GentlyBenevolent · 04/03/2015 12:24

Actually, I think the education I got at my comp was excellent. Superb. But it was about passing exams, being nice (catholic school) and music (music was a big deal at my school, and luckily I was a music person, my sister wasn't and had a less good time at school as a consequence). No debating societies, no 'how to speak proper' ;) lessons, no instilling of confidence. I think maybe, int he early 80s, people (well, teachers) believed that society was changing sufficiently that such things didn't matter any more. I was always told I could do anything I wanted to from an intelligence/ability POV - but as soon as I arrived at Cambridge I realised how very different the posh school kids were. Their attitude, their bearing, their confidence, their willingness to take risks (sometimes that's a bad thing but sometimes it's a very valuable trait. Me, I'm the most risk averse person in the world and my opportunities have thus been somewhat constrained). I did not believe the world was my oyster, although I did believe (at the time) that working hard and playing by the rules would result in appropriate reward (ha!). They did believe the world was their oyster and their worlds obliged by allowing them to shape them that way.

I also think that not being an arse can be its own reward. The world seems to reward arses with depressing regularity but as Rimmer once said - better dead than smeg.

Hakluyt · 04/03/2015 12:34

"
"GentlyBenevolent Well done on doing well in spite of your comp education"

Now it's statements like that that really make me see red. "Well done for doing wre in spite of your crap education" is a perfectly valid think to say. "in spite of your comp" education most certainly isn't.

maplebaconchips · 04/03/2015 12:38

I went to a comprehensive school late 1980s, and then to a private school for 6th form. The comprehensive actually punished being intelligent, I was bullied terribly for being bookish and bright. It was miserable, and scary.
The private school had small classes, excellent teachers, and lovely girls. Being intelligent was the norm there. A bit high pressured, and being an ex comprehensive girl, I was not given much in the way of attention - I wasn't expected to do much. I ended up with the best grades in the school at 18 and a total lack of career counselling, or help choosing a uni. Drugs were more prevalent in the private school though, than the comp.

Higgle · 04/03/2015 12:53

Girls Grammar in 60's/70's. The teachers wore gowns to assembly, the head wore a mortar board too ( though the effect was somewhat spoiled by her crossing her legs on the stage and showing acres of stocking tops and thigh). The uniform requirements were draconian - you had to wear your hat all the way home, and the prefects on the school bus would report you if you didn't. Lots of games, Latin lessons and an expectation you would date a boy from the boys grammar school at the other end of town in the 6th form. If you got engaged ( and quite a few did) you had to write to the head and ask for permission to wear your engagement ring. We didn't seem to have huge academic success, most of my friends became nurses or primary school teachers in the days when you only needed O levels for that. In fact I think the majority of the pupils married farmers and gave up outside work. The vicar's daughter went to Oxford but no one else applied. the past is indeed another country.

LostInWales · 04/03/2015 13:06

I read the OP thinking 'it was just a school, do work get exams, leave' but then I thought of all the bits around and about doing work and passing exams. I do feel a pang for my children because I cannot for a minute replicate the after school activities that I took for granted, I would need so much money and a time machine. This will probably out me but we had sailing/windsurfing/canoeing as our PE lessons. On Sunday after chapel (where I sang in the choir which was wonderful) there was always a teacher ready to take us up a nearby mountain for a nice walk. I've sung in cathedrals, played in orchestras, got grade 8's coming out my ears and got my advanced certificate in an instrument the year before my A levels. Had elocution lessons, acted in plays, put on skits for assemblies and debated against boys schools. Where I hare about now taking my children swimming and football and piano lessons it was all there in one place with everything laid on to make it easy. It was AMAZING and I did make the most of it and enjoy it thank goodness!

Also being in an all female environment gives you confidence to do things, we did carpentry and I remember sitting in the physics lab with lots of my friends (i.e. not just the science A level groups) soldering some circuits to make a space ship with alternate flashing lights for the school play. I suppose they had us 24 hours a day for weeks at a time, they had to find lots of things to keep us out of mischief (failed a tiny bit on that level, I mean there was a secondary school with boys just down the road Wink). Probably down to the acres of swishy great hair that came with the uniform!

I did leave with a vat full of confidence and terrible accent but thankfully 20 years in the NHS has knocked that out of me very nicely Grin.

I would love my boys to have that opportunity too and I have offered it to them but (thank GOD!) they apparently cannot bear a single day without a cuddle from mummy because much as I would love it for them I think I'd wither away if they weren't here making me shout and grumpy and tired and oh so busy. Grin

WE went to Russia too, what is it with private school and Russia?

ImABigOleBadLass · 04/03/2015 13:09

I went to a small private school in the regions (full of services kids, not that posh), while DH went to a comp in a Midlands mining town. He had an awful education - was barely taught any grammar, for instance, and had to teach himself when he got to uni and took a look at everyone else's writing and realised he was lacking.

We are on a level pegging when it comes to intelligence - though I do say so myself! - but he got mostly Cs at GCSE (passed 6, retook and passed another the following year) and A-level. I got all As and Bs. He should have done a lot better, but he had teachers who made no secret of the fact they hated him because he questioned their teaching (English teacher taught Eng Lang GCSE without studying any novels?!?), teachers who only liked the girls in the class and ignored all the boys etc. He has no experience of public speaking and hates it, though it would benefit his career greatly. I was taught to do this from an early age.

We've now cashed in our chips and sent the dcs private.

TempsPerdu · 04/03/2015 13:13

That's interesting, GentlyBenevolent - I feel the same about my grammar school - emphasis on learning for its own sake; lots of art and music; lovely liberal, vaguely left-wing ethos; general attitude of 'do as you would be done by.' We all came out of it with this idealistic sense that we could do absolutely anything, and that the world was meritocratic - work hard, be nice, and you'd do well. Was a bit of a culture shock to get to university and discover that things don't always work like that!

TheWordFactory · 04/03/2015 13:23

bump makes an interesting point about public school programming their DC to become high achievers.

Actually I think this comes from home as much as school.

DH and I both did well educationally and have successful careers. Most of our mates do too. The ones who don't earn much are still good at what they do IYSWIM.

This is the fabric if our DCs lives. And it's the sane for their school friends for the most part.

Obviously schools feed this expectation of high achievement but it's just all part of the general pattern of these children's lives.

I don't imagine public schools make people feel they have to work at Goldmans or whatever. Though it certainly allows them to do that if they want.

It certainly wouldn't be a concern for me and make me decide not to send them; the fear that they will aim too high.

Hakluyt · 04/03/2015 13:27

"English teacher taught Eng Lang GCSE without studying any novels?!"

Why would you study novels for an English Language GCSE?

GentlyBenevolent · 04/03/2015 13:30

Hak - some boards do study novels (well, probably 1 novel) (and possibly plays too) for Eng Lang GCSE. I don't know why. It seems counterintuitive. But they do.

GentlyBenevolent · 04/03/2015 13:31

Actually obviously what I meant was some boards do make the people taking their exam study novels...

rabbitstew · 04/03/2015 13:42

Seems to me, most of the advantages described simply come from being born wealthy and mixing with the wealthy. Of course you can take risks if you've never really had to suffer serious consequences from your risk taking - you just have to look at bankers to see how easy it is to take risks if you consider yourself unlikely to be the one suffering the worst of the consequences. A lack of understanding of how awful life can get if you make awful mistakes is a huge confidence boost.

I also agree with Bumpsadaisie, though, that there is probably a narrower definition of what counts as "success" in private schools. You are more free to decide not to be particularly ambitious in a state school and to choose to play it safe, or to choose quality of life over power and influence. We probably do need more people to be pushed out of their comfort zones to enter the cynical world of the influential.

LostInWales · 04/03/2015 13:46

Forgot the downside though, school was ace, really good fun and although I didn't get amazing results it got me where I needed to be BUT I was hundreds of miles from the people I went to primary school with, hundreds of miles from my family and they all got on with life without me. I am getting older now and I realise that my fierce independence, which comes from being thrust into an entirely alien environment at 10 with no familiar people, we weren't allowed to call home for the first three weeks. I don't have a lot of friends and I've never liked to rely on them too much anyway but you need to sometimes. I am very lonely now, I don't have a soul to rely on and I wouldn't know how even if I did. Whatever the education I don't think there is a substitute for growing up within a loving family, education is great and so are the extra curricular activities but you can study and travel at any age, teenagers, whatever their sharp edges, are best in their own families IMHO. Maybe weekly boarding would be the ideal but then you'd miss out on your Sunday mountain!

GentlyBenevolent · 04/03/2015 13:51

Lost I've sung in cathedrals, played in orchestras, got grade 8's coming out my ears and got my advanced certificate in an instrument the year before my A levels.

I did all this too at a comp Grin (although in my case I got the grades/diploma) before my O levels. Never climbed any mountains though. (Thank heavens)

NotCitrus · 04/03/2015 13:55

I went to private schools including boarding school in the 80s. MrNC is a few years older and went to two comps in the 80s.

His schools had much better computer and tech facilities; mine had more sports and music space and equipment. Similar numbers of classes in portacabins or cold/leaking rooms, though my schools had some lovely architecture versus his post-war concrete. Similar numbers in most classes though some classes at my schools were very small (a single student did Ancient Greek GCSE).

Big difference in expectations - though if I'd been at state schools in my posh area of Surrey it would have been still different to his school in the Midlands - his home counties 6th form was more similar.

If you didn't get 5 grade A-Cs for GCSE you were kicked out at my school, though in reality anyone not expected to get at least 8 Cs minimum was pressured to leave well before that. MrNC learnt to read age 12 being severely dyslexic, but was in top maths and tech and physics sets, so a comp was perfect for him.

Everyone was expected to go to uni from my school, unless you went to art/nursing college or similar. I recall some students being shocked to hear in sixth form that lots of people - even the majority - didn't do A-levels let alone not go to university. I didn't know council housing existed until after I left school (there isn't any in my home town). MrNC didn't know private schools existed until he was in 6th form and his school liked aping one (he and brother refused to call teachers Sir after being on first name terms with teachers at their old school. The good teachers weren't fussed.)

My school had a lot of mucking about and a number of totally useless staff that would have had dire results in another school, but because we were all bright and expected by our families and other teachers to get good grades, after giving teachers grief we would go and do homework anyway and teach ourselves from the textbooks, so it wasn't obvious that I had no maths teaching from age 13 onwards and various subjects just had us giving teachers breakdowns.

The big difference was how savvy my schools were in dealing with the press. My school had regular fights on the school bus, resulting in bloodshed and one stabbing where the driver then beat up the sixthformer who did it then dumped him on the hard shoulder, older kids using drugs, but the only news stories that got out were the ice cream man being arrested for 'trying' to sell cocaine, and one rumoury piece about prefects using whips and knuckledusters to keep order. Ditto at my other school, staff getting girls pregnant, teachers getting sacked for being drunk and/or violent, a strippergram turning up - despite the local newspaper knowing all these, nothing was published - whereas a bit of jostling on the bus by local state school lads was made into a despairing "youth of today" article.

The flip side of high expectations is fear of not meeting them - anorexia and self-harm were rife, various suicide attempts, school psychiatrist was employed. And not knowing much about living on low incomes didn't help with that fear - total ignorance of the existence of benefits meant genuine fear of homelessness when parents lost jobs, and probably more parents with nervous breakdowns and going mad than you'd find in an average school. On the other hand, we gained a lot of knowledge of politics of various countries from kids whose families were expats or often in government there, and living in a boarding school sharing bedrooms really gives you familiarity with different cultures in a way that being neighbours or colleagues doesn't (again, my home town was 99% white, so really didn't do diversity). It was noticeable that close friends tended to have similar amounts of money or the wealthier ones would hide it.

MrNC and family had much more of a "the kids will be all right" attitude, so he got encouraged in the subjects he was good at by both home and school, and ignored his dyslexia totally.

Hakluyt · 04/03/2015 13:55

"Seems to me, most of the advantages described simply come from being born wealthy and mixing with the wealthy. "

Not necessarily wealthy. But certainly not poor if you are considering the accomplishments of the average British middle class child. And, whether wealthy or not, certainly privileged. The two don't necessarily go together.

JillyR2015 · 04/03/2015 14:03

Also those damaged psychologically by boarding school, that is just boarding schools. There are very good academic day private schools - some of the best schools in the country where you are with your parents every evening.

rabbitstew · 04/03/2015 14:16

JillyR2015 - there are plenty of complaints of psychological damage coming from children who attended day schools, whether private or state.

rabbitstew · 04/03/2015 14:17

Hakluyt - maybe you and I just have a different idea of where "wealth" begins. Wink

Hakluyt · 04/03/2015 14:33

Probably not- I just think privilege is more important than wealth- and th words are not synonymous.

Frostycake · 04/03/2015 14:43

Hakluyt apologies, no offence meant. You're right, I should have said despite your crap education. Comp is not the same as crap as has been evidenced on this thread; some lovely stories on here of very good comprehensive school educational experiences.

LostinWales I am Envy at your sailing lessons for PE and playing in orchestras. I didn't see a live orchestra until I was 30 Shock

JillyR2015 yes, I work with people who went to boarding school and the horrors that went on make me glad I didn't go to one (fat chance). At least as a none-boarder, you could escape the abuse by going home at night. Having said that though, they have a contact book that looks like 'Debrett's People of Today.'

Rabbitstew Sage words.

OP posts:
GentlyBenevolent · 04/03/2015 14:46

Frosty when I was a kid all the comps in my borough were represented in the borough orchestras. All of them. Free music lessons were a great thing, ending them was, IMO, criminal.

LoofahVanDross · 04/03/2015 14:50

I went to a prep school for a while which was lovely, then a grammar school which was shit. It is now known as one of the super selectives. I hated it. This is back in the late 70's to early 80's.

My DC have had a range of different educations, state first, some home ed and ended up in private.

The private has helped with job applications I know this for sure as it is always talked about in interviews. As for qualifications I don't think there is alot of difference from state or private.

Frostycake · 04/03/2015 14:52

ImaBigOleBadLass can you tell me more about being taught about public speaking? This is my Achilles heel as I'm terrible at it. I hate being the centre of attention and my hands and voice shake after five minutes.

Was it case of practice, practice and more practice in front of the class or school or was it more than that? Did you debate?

I've had very expensive aversion therapy by a Harley Street doctor but it made little difference. I still feel 'unworthy' iykwim.

OP posts:
LoofahVanDross · 04/03/2015 14:55

I would say a private education does tend to build confidence. Lots of public speaking, debates, manners and etiquette. I suppose all that helps, as none of mine have had any worries about going for interviews whereas I positively shit myself at anything like that!

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