State schools and an easy life or independent?

[TremoloGreen]

We’re doing a bit of financial planning at the moment – our 5/10 year plan – and the issue of schooling has come up. We’ve been leaning towards state education for the following reasons.

A private education is very, very expensive these days and I’m not sure what you get over a good state school is worth the money. A not very scientific survey of people we know (I’d say roughly half are state-educated) suggests to me that the key to being happy and successful in life is a stable, loving family and a can-do attitude/’drive’. These things seem to have more bearing than whether one is state or independently educated.

We could, at a push, afford independent, with a bit of help from our parents. However, it would mean watching the pennies and no fancy holidays. It would also mean that we would both have to work very hard, full-time. At the moment, I only work part-time and DH works full-time but with a good work-life balance. Also, we’d be more dependent on inheritance to fund a comfortable lifestyle in retirement, and I guess there are no cast-iron guarantees with that. In the likelihood that we do get the inheritances we’re expecting, we’d have more cash to help our children with buying homes etc.

We’re in the process of moving house and the area we are moving to has a choice of very highly regarded single sex state schools (non-selective though) or a good, mixed independent school. All the primaries we would have a chance of getting into are ‘outstanding’. There are plenty of extra-curricular activities on offer in the local area. We’re deliberately not buying a particularly flashy house, so we have the choice of what to do with our money. Tying it up in one property/ having a massive mortgage scares me!

The reason we’re wavering is that state education is an unknown to both of us. No-one in either of our families has been to a state school so we don’t know the reality of it. The class sizes concern me, I don’t understand how each child can get enough input – will I really have enough time to do all the extra needed at home? People seem surprised that we would consider state if we can afford independent – do they know something we don’t?

. My master stroke was the "always." I defy you to interpret the meaning of something that never can't always...

ps what does "royalty of the film" mean??

You never can't always love your child?

Film royalty not divine right right royalty?

There are some interesting views as to what might happen to private education in the future.

The traditional middle classes will certainly not be able to fund it in its current expensive form.

That said there are still plenty of folk with the Pretty Green ( especially in the south east) who will spend on education.

The UK is becoming ever more divided with a small(er) section of the population having the sort of money that allows meaningful choice and; the rest.

It may be that the rest now includes enough middle class parents to start making serious demands of state education. That they can whip it into a shape which properly competes with the private sector.

But that will be difficult in the face if huge public spending cuts.

I wonder if actually we might see an increase in no drills private school?

Sort of private grammar schools at a more reasonable pop?

Yes to Zero.

summer On such a night as that I do find myself wondering about the self worth of the spouses of film royalty. All that being shoved out of the way and ignored on the red carpet.

Perhaps only the bracing up of a really good school can inure one to it?

happygardening Top independent schools are having no trouble filling their places from a tiny sliver of the very wealthy but increasingly these parents are not UK voters, let alone MPs.

Look at what happened in Scotland at the end of last year: independent schools retained their charitable status only by the skin of their teeth.

If so called "leading" schools continue to alienate their natural constituency, they risk leading the entire independent sector over the cliff.

Umm not rtft but I think this is one of the hope for the best , prepare for the worst , situations re money.

So I would make a state school plan- you sound vv lucky in your choices. BUT I'd keep holidays modest , expenses low and stash some money away.

In your situation it sounds like you will only need private education as a " fall back" incase a child doesn't fit/ struggles at state school. IMHO that is the child for whom a paid education is invaluable - state schools can't provide small classes etc that benefit kids who don't cope socially or academically in state school. High flyers do well in good state schools, those with real SEN do best in a state system but the strugglers that struggle without a designated reason - it's where money helps.

Broad statements I know but hopefully it makes sense.

granola loads of private schools that couldn't conceivably be called too public schools are able to fill their places and then some.

By no means are these schools filled with the children of non doms!

Go to Habs, NLC, Merchant Taylor's, berkhsmstead collegiate, St Albans High...

Up and down the country these small name day schools are packed with nary a Russian in sight.

There are still a lot if people with a lot of money in the UK. Or enough to fill these schools.

I think your DCs would prefer a mum who worked part time, woo could be involved in their education at a good state primary school, an unstressed dad and a good range of activities to being at a private school and not having as much time.

granola I don't think the charitable status is that big a deal for many of the Scottish schools- certainly not the Edinburgh ones. There is a lot of money in Edinburgh and the day schools are packed. It is obviously preferable for these schools to have charitable status, but if they lost it, we'd certainly cough up the additional fees and I suspect most other parents would as well.

TWF You could be right about a rise of "no frills" private schools but there may not be time for them to bed down before charitable status is abolished thanks to the lunatic fee rises perpertrated by the "top" schools.

It's also worth considering who is going to be staffing the elite schools just a few years from now. Some very talented teachers are being put off working in them by their new exclusive social composition and by the astronomical fees which their staff discounts do nothing to help them to afford for their own DC.

granola if teachers can't cope with the new globalisation of education, then they will have to find themselves a more provincial position.

I really don't think it's a worry on a large scale.

The world moves on and public schools move too.

Just as the elite universities have had to move on, coping with their new global student base.

I don't think that fee rises are going to deter people from becoming teachers/staying in the profession. There is a whole and growing cadre of teachers who actively seek careers in the global market and go overseas to work in "international" schools (which have many guises) to gain the kind of perspective that no training course could possibly afford them.

I dont notice a problem staffing my DS2 school and I defintely dont meet the disillusion with teaching that I have find in the state sector. I also don't meet the jobs worth moaning culture, blaming everyone but themselves for anything that goes wrong that I meet in the state sector. Teachers in boarding schools work incredibly hard, available to the boys and parents 24/7, our HM frequently emails us at 3 am, their level of dedication and caring is exceedingly high but staff turn over seems very low as far as I can see.
granola I'm not sure how significant loosing their charitable status would be for many, apart from an administrative nightmare, and I sorry to disappoint you some actually take their charitable status very seriously and therefore why should they have it removed? Also says they are gong to remove it, is it in the manifesto of any of the parties? This has been rumbling for many years since my DS first started at prep 11 years ago nothing changes.

Oh, ZeroFunDame - you win. I concede that "you never can't always love your child" has meaning. As for ER, we all know that good mental health and Oscars do not always go hand in hand, but he appears to come from a stable, loving family (or at least, I think his parents are still together?!...), so no reason to suppose he doesn't have a sense of self-worth!

I wonder if ER would have made it in acting if his parents had bankrupted themselves sending him to Eton? How long did they need to continue supporting him for after he left school, I wonder?...

Why do we think the new generation of actors are coming from private school BTW?

Is it to do with cuts in arts funding in the state sector?

Still, I think he traded on his looks by doing a bit of modelling... for posh brands... so you never know - maybe even with impoverished parents, it was Eton that made him who he is!

The new generation of actors are coming from wealthy families, TheWordFactory. Wealthy families are more likely to educate their children privately.

OK then, let the talented teachers go abroad and let schools lose their charitable status. I just think this would all be rather a pity and that it's preventable.

Maybe our local state school is odd, or very lucky, but the teachers don't give off any kind of vibe of disillusionment.

I'm sure there are some jaded staff there. They probably just aren't the ones who recognise parents and stop them in the street to mention how pleased they are with a child's possibly very small in DS's case improvement in their subject; nor the ones who put in a full day's work, come back for afterschool orchestra and then help rehearse the choir at the weekend / take the history club to the battlefields / raise money for a new school sculpture project.

Actually, yes, I think we're probably very lucky.

I'm confused (I know it doesn't take much). Why are teachers going abroad? My DS2's school is in the UK.
Who's said that schools should loose their charitable status?

rabbit I think his school must have had some part in his success.

Being rich doesn't make you a good actor. You have to be well trained.

And ER was winning awards very early on.

I mean he must have natural talent but there must be kids up and down the country with as much talent.

I'd say state. I think kids would rather have happy, unstressed parents who have plenty of time for them.

I say that as someone who went to a sink school with no sixth form and made it to university and into an adult career that I love. I didn't have much financial or emotional support from my parents either. I think Iv'e turned out OK.

It sounds as though your kids will go to a carefully chosen school and get a great deal of love and support from you, plus holidays (even if 'only' in Europe) and a comfortable lifestyle.

rabbit and WF forget connections to get a job into the city, it is aspiring thespians who need the huge drama budget of elite private schools and connections into that industry.