A thread to discuss state selective education.

[Hakluyt]

I am conscious that this debate is clogging up other threads in ways which are not helpful and must be annoying for those threads' authors. I tried to channel the debate to a separate thread yesterday, but got it badly wrong. I hope this will work better, and will be allowed to stay.

I am not suggesting every parent feels this way or that every family is the same. I just noticed that the thread was heading down a culdesaque where we ignore what seems to be a prime driver in parental behaviour and school choice.

If you read this thread you might think people weren't worried about "how much their kid is getting." My experience listening to other parents at the school gates and watching the choices they make about secondary tells me otherwise.

To change the schools you have to change parental behaviour. To change behaviour you have to identify what us driving that behaviour.

I do try to be both honest and respectful of other people when I post on a thread. I really enjoy all the posters and think of you as "real people" not anonymous abstractions. I would never want to hurt anyone. On the other hand, if we self censor too much the threads are boring and pointless. With just a few dominant posters creating an echo chamber?

I am sure there must be some good grammar schools however just because a school is a grammar it does not mean it is good.

There are, indeed, good and bad schools in every sector. But generally speaking the Sen provision is going to be better at a comprehensive or a secondary modern- because they are more geared up for it. Generally speaking.

I am so sorry to hear about your ds's experience, Philoslothy.

In our county, there is very unusual and patchy provision for mild to moderate SEN of the autistic /dyslexic /dyspraxic spectrum. So much so that the LEA will place children in the grammars and ds's non-selective independent as that is where the better provision and experience lies.

All areas are different.

Hakluyt. You need to be very careful when using the word "generally" when quoting facts as I found out in my first OU module.

Extracts from the SEN policy of Wirral Girls Grammar , quite possibly one the most extensive ones around:

Exam Access Arrangements , Action for Child Counselling Services, NHS Counselling group individual sessions, Educational Psychologist Services,
Additional Support intervention programs in MFL, Maths, Science, Support sessions on study skills, and curriculum support with learning mentor.

"All lessons are differrentiated by need regarding SEN . Teachers are supported by the SENCO to find suitable strategies for all pupils"

"Our School has a "Comprehensive" pastoral system which aids the "Holistic " approach. "In addition we have Physical and Mental health support via the School nurse and youth worker." "Medications can be delivered by first aid personal.

In some cases it is helpful for some year 6 pupils especially those on the "Autistic" Spectrum to have an arranged private tour of the school with the SENCO.

The school has 3.0% of pupils on the Special Needs Register, considering how difficult it is to get "bright" pupils on the Register, in reality has many more.

This is clearly a very well thought policy , which will enable pupils with specific needs or support get the required help.

It is very easy to write a policy, the one for my DS's school was more extensive than that - I know it word for word! In reality they did nothing. he had counselling - that I paid for. He saw an educational psychologist that I paid for, he had extra tuition that my friends in the comprehensive school provided for free.

In a recent event the school quoted him as a pupil with additional needs who was going to apply to a certain university because of their input. They received a sternly worded letter from me.

When I was a governor we wrote some lovely policies.
The anti bullying was a work of art.
And had about that much relevance to what went on in the school.

The only good one was the RE and I was delegated to write that as a well informed impartial Atheist

Hak -^
There are, indeed, good and bad schools in every sector. But generally speaking the Sen provision is going to be better at a comprehensive or a secondary modern- because they are more geared up for it. ^

I think there are plenty of grammar schools which are very geared up for the sort of high functioning SEN conditions like variants of dyslexia and dyspraxia and AS. Because in the areas where grammars exist, those very high functioning kids will be passing the 11+ regularly and going to those schools. I agree with you that they will likely have less experience of a wider variety of conditions. But very high functioning SEN situations are probably better handled in grammars where they see lots of these kids than comps where they will see fewer (because the high functioning ones will be spread across more schools rather than concentrated in one school). The SEN provision at DS's comp assumes less bright as a starting point which isn't very helpful - he was originally told he wouldn't be able to do triple science because he would need extra support in English (because he was on the dyslexic list) and that took up timetable space, luckily the maths staff and science staff queried this because he was top set for these subjects and they couldn't understand why he was being moved down several sets in the middle of year 9 (when the sorting into 'tracks' began). He wasn't the only one affected. It was sorted out but it was a silly position to have to sort out.

"These are totally unrelated to the posting but mini keeps saying I have no understanding about bad behaviour"

You have no idea what it's like to parent a child who's seriously underachieving and causing problems at school. Being the victim of an attack by a teenager is irrelevant. If anything it would undermine your ability to empathise with a parent who feels guilty, and frightened for their child.

Woo Hoo
A news story about back door selection - my fave
www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-30850048

Talkinpeace. I thought I said something like that up post, and then backtracked because I said "Majority" of !. However, it does justify some of my statement that a "lot" of Comprehensive schools have admission criteria far more complicated and "unique" then Grammar schools. Most grammar schools admission criteria are "Pass" or pass higher if out of the catchment.

Philoslothy. 3% SEN is quite a high figure for a grammar (especially for a girls grammar). Therefore I think Wirral Girls Grammar has valid experience with SEN and possibly "actively" looking to admit such pupils to their school.

I was not criticising Wirral grammar, I was making the point that policies can be empty statements