Prep school but can't really afford it

[winkywinkola]

3 of my dcs are at prep school. They're very happy there, doing well etc.

We struggle to send them there. Overdrawn every month. No holidays apart from trips up north to stay with family.

Dh is insistent they go there. They will go state secondary so ds1 has 1.5 years left but then ds3 will start at the prep so our financial situation will not improve until dd leaves to go state in 3 years.

I do wonder about the wisdom of this. The school is smashing. There is no doubt about that. The dcs are doing very well there but there are absolutely no frills in our lives whatsover. It's tough and we are both feeling the pressure.

Dh thinks it's a good investment for now and worth the struggle. I've gone back to work (happily) but on a freelance basis so the money isn't that regular. And we're just about to take in two lodgers which will help too.

But it will a while before we feel any happiness from this increased revenue because we've built up £5k worth of debt over the last two years. Part of which is due to decorating and furnishing to a decent standard the two rooms we're letting out.

When I think of the money we spend each year on fees and the stress, worry and arguments we have about money, I just wonder if it's worth it. The local schools are all 'needing improvement' according to OFSTED and DH just won't consider them and is prepared to live threadbare lives. I think it's ridiculous. This is the one big bone of contention in our lives imo.

We are so the poor family at school! Not that I care but it just highlights to me just how much money one really needs to go private.

Please can anyone furnish me with stronger rationales as to why we should go state?

Really? You think we should go to the HM and chat about private secondary schools with a view to a bursary? I'm not sure he's that kind of head tbh. He's a bit disinterested. I know he's looking for another job.

So you are bankrupting yourselves for a school with a head that doesn't give a shit? Huh? FWIW my dd is in a primary with a head that retires in a few months. After 17 years as head. And he is still running the school with everything he has. And their school is free.

Surely, surely if you are going to pay for education, then you pay for secondary and not primary?. Primary kids usually want to learn, but from my 20 years experience as a teacher secondary students quite often don't...

They are much much kore influence by peers at secondary rather than primary. I think you are wasting your money doing it this way round. I would do what a poster up thread suggested, and move to an area with excellent state schools.

I think you are just chucking money away if you can't really afford it.

I'm wondering what you are paying for because it doesn't sound like a school worth paying 3 set of fees.
Of course a HM should be able to advise on secondary education that is very much the norm at prep school especially at one where a large amount leave at 11+.
Why are so few from the school passing the 11+? If it really is teaching 2 years ahead then the kids shouldn't be having such problems with it. A good prep will also be doing some verbal and non verbal reasoning to help prepare them.
Where do the boys go on to at 13+? I assume they do the CE

I could understand stretching myself for one of the top prep schools if it was producing results but this school just doesn't sound like one of them.

You say most parents at the school send their kids to state secondaries...
Why is that? It's a very unusual thing to do

How many do the state primary get to grammar compared with the frankly crap prep?

How much will you have spent once they're all done with primary? £100,000? For a school that has a totally disinterested head, very few kids taught sufficiently well to get to grammar, and probably declining roles? And the cost to you as a family?

Far far better idea to save the money and pay for private sixth form for each of them, surely.
This seems utterly bonkers.

My dc have all got to the higher levels by the end of their very non-posh state primary school - the teacher reckons my youngest needs to be aiming for L6 by the end of this year, and is by no means exceptionally able, nor by a long way the brightest in the class.

And it is not a school that parents fight, lie or move house to get into.

Your setup is deranged, frankly. Obviously if you had loads of money then it doesn't much matter if your children could get equivalent results in a state primary school, or if your dh wants to indulge his vague sense that the prep school education must somehow be 'better' in some obscure way because you're paying for it.

But on a cost-benefit analysis it is insane. You can't afford it, and after umpteen years of bankrupting yourselves, your children will go the state secondary school that they would have gone to from the local primary school anyway. So where is the gain? That business with the prep school kids working two years ahead of their age may be true (though it can't be true of all pupils, otherwise they'd be sending screeds of kids to the grammar school, surely), but bright kids in non-private primaries will also be two or more years ahead. So again, no obvious benefit.

Does your dh realise that children in state primary school have proper lessons, exercise books, homework and, y'know, learn things? [not being too sarky, I have encountered people who seemed to be staggered to find out that my dc had proper lessons and actual exercise books in their non-fee-paying school.] I think your dh needs to look very closely at the assumptions he's making and see whether they have any basis in reality (clue: probably not).

I don't understand this at all because you have contradicted yourself so much . You say by the end of yr6 they are doing state school yr 8 work ,if that is the case why do so few get into the grammar schools ? You also say most go on to state secondary yet at the parents evening the parents were all interested in passing entrance exams . My DS went private to 11 then to a grammar , at the private school we chose that was the norm - the 11+ pass rate is usually 95% or above. It sounds to me like you picked the wrong school ,that said its never too late to change , especially for your younger DC.

I said many. Not most go to state secondary.

Bonkers.

Move to an area with good primaries and save your money for private secondary.

I have to be up extra-early in the morning.. But anyway...

Are you in the same county as the grammars? Meaning the only alternative would be secondary modern schools. Or are you over the border with access to comprehensives. Because despite Tigger your DH's optimism, how are they going to do extra well if they go to a secondary modern with a comparatively restricted choice of GCSEs? (I'm not saying no one can do well at a SM but it's not what you'd aim for from a high achieving, academic prep - if you were at one ...) And would they then have to move for A Levels?

Actually, if the grammars cream off all the clever state and private 11 year olds for miles around - even from the comprehensives ....

No. He has definitely not thought this through.

Is this a high achieving, academic prep (by local or national standards) or one that takes all comers, with concomitant mixed results? Its poor showing at 11+ stage sounds more like the second.

I was being unwisely facetious . It clearly isn't.

Well, quite, but I thought it was worth being clear about what sort of prep we were talking about. Claims about working two years ahead would imply high achieving and academic, but its actual performance in terms of the 11+ suggests the polar opposite. Unless, I suppose, few go to the grammar schools because they've won scholarships to top independent schools, its results may well be worse than the surrounding state primary schools'.

Let's look at the numbers for a minute. At a conservative estimate the prep school fees are going to be at least 10K p.a. (probably 12-15K) and you are paying for 3 children. So school fees are a minimum of 30K p.a.

If your DC were in a state primary you could spend half of that on enrichment activities, 10K on building your savings and have 5K for holidays etc.

15K pa across 4 children would allow you to spend 72 per week on each child think about how much tutoring, music and sport that would cover.

It sounds difficult. You have chosen to have up to 4 children gp through prep-school, presumably all having private tutoring to get into grammar schools. Whilst not having two full-time incomes that would be tough for many families, even with two difficult incomes.

If your home is big enough to take lodgers could you downsize to reduce mortgage and have money for school fees? Or increase mortgage/debt knowing it is for a set amount of time and can be paid off when children in state schools and two full-time salaries? I think if one makes choices to spend more than coming in, then having to live with the consequences is oar for the course or do some thing about it?

• two good incomes

Surely one of the benefits if a private prep should be the school's links to private secondaries and the Hm's relationships with them for bursaries etc. he sounds pretty feeble.

I don't understand what long term benefit your children are receiving if they'll go into the state sector at 11/13 in whichever school they just end up in. They should be aiming at the grammars pretty intensely surely after all the money you're spending.

Do your DC do any extracurricular activities, like instrumental lessons, speech and drama, dancing or sport?

If you weren't paying for school, you would have lots of money for these, which really do make a difference. If any of your DC were not stretched at a particular subject at school, you could afford a tutor or out of school clubs for them (eg, art clubs, Kumon maths).

I have to say, I have had no experience of state primary schools, but I do know, if I had to choose between private schooling and extras, I would go with the extras, every time.

As other posters have said 2 years ahead isn't that big a deal. My ds is in the middle sets and he has always been 1 year above the expected norms. Our tops sets are full of children who are at least 2 years ahead.

It seems as if your dh has had tunnel vision regarding state/private education. It's possible that your children would be doing just as well in the state sector.

I was in the same position as the OP but in my case it was me rather than dp who wanted them in indies. We really went without. We had lots of outings but free stuff...parks, swimming, holidays to family members and museums. IT IS WORTH EVERY SINGLE PENNY. Please don't take them out. A good education is the best investment they can have. Mine are now very senior professionals and they would not be there without private schooling. Tutor them yourself for grammar school. But don't be under any illusion that state schools are as good....just think class sizes.
We didn't pay off our mortgage or have nice cars but these things don't matter....a good education does.
And remember there are many people on here who are just against private education for ideological or political reasons and will give you all sorts of arguments against. Stick with it. Your DH is right

mmm1701 Come on! No one is saying the OP or her DH were wrong to want the best possible education for their children. It is simply that they do not appear to be getting value for money from this school. Quite a few people on this thread use or have used private schools - including the very, very best by any standard - which makes it all the more frustrating to see the OP seemingly throwing money away with neither school support nor a firm plan in place.

mmm

I have DC in private schools and I still question her DH's decision. This is not an pro or anti private school thread so please don't suggest that it is. Its about what is the best decision for the family as a whole. Leaving the DC in the prep may be the right thing or in this case it might not be both points of view are valid so stop trying to dismiss other people's concerns as ideological.

And I would very much hope that even at this prep all the extra curricular activities, sports, hobbies etc come as standard. That is after all what one pays (extra) for.