Prep school but can't really afford it

[winkywinkola]

3 of my dcs are at prep school. They're very happy there, doing well etc.

We struggle to send them there. Overdrawn every month. No holidays apart from trips up north to stay with family.

Dh is insistent they go there. They will go state secondary so ds1 has 1.5 years left but then ds3 will start at the prep so our financial situation will not improve until dd leaves to go state in 3 years.

I do wonder about the wisdom of this. The school is smashing. There is no doubt about that. The dcs are doing very well there but there are absolutely no frills in our lives whatsover. It's tough and we are both feeling the pressure.

Dh thinks it's a good investment for now and worth the struggle. I've gone back to work (happily) but on a freelance basis so the money isn't that regular. And we're just about to take in two lodgers which will help too.

But it will a while before we feel any happiness from this increased revenue because we've built up £5k worth of debt over the last two years. Part of which is due to decorating and furnishing to a decent standard the two rooms we're letting out.

When I think of the money we spend each year on fees and the stress, worry and arguments we have about money, I just wonder if it's worth it. The local schools are all 'needing improvement' according to OFSTED and DH just won't consider them and is prepared to live threadbare lives. I think it's ridiculous. This is the one big bone of contention in our lives imo.

We are so the poor family at school! Not that I care but it just highlights to me just how much money one really needs to go private.

Please can anyone furnish me with stronger rationales as to why we should go state?

It's only the "top set" who will be doing year 8 work in year 6. I'm sure most "top set" pupils at state primaries are doing at least similar.

The state secondary will no doubt be able to differentiate, just as most state primary schools do. There is no reason for them to be bored!

Can you move? To an area with good state primaries?

The two years ahead is completely standard in my dd primary - she y4 and apparently working at y6 level.

Moving does seem an elegant solution. It makes the climb down from prep school seem a little obvious and the kids don't have to explain why they are changing schools. It's obvious: you've moved. Moved for work, nicer neighbourhood, etc.

"And this school claims that by year 6, top set children have covered year 8 work in the state system. "

So when they go to secondary you're going to put them in the situation of coasting and learning nothing new for two years?

That sounds completely bonkers to me. They'll be bored to tears. Probably literally.

I agree with others that it's completely normal for a bright kid in a state primary to be at least two years ahead - my DD was by no means the only kid getting level 4 for her English work in y3-4. I would not describe her primary as particularly good.

Would a state school not recognise that some children have covered the material and provide some appropriate work instead?

I mean, there must be children in state schools from the off who are bored and need to be catered to?

Just curious.

Would a state school not recognise that some children have covered the material and provide some appropriate work instead?

Yes, as stated in my earlier post, the state secondary should differentiate. Two years ahead will not be anything out of the ordinary.

2 years ahead in maths would be Level 6 leaving primary wouldn't it? Theres a good few of those every year surely

from ordinary state primary schools I mean

But what's the point of all this massive sacrifice, only for them to end up in the same place?

OP Is your prep really so extraordinary? (Would you put it in the top 5 in the country? Top 10? Honestly?)

Where do the majority of children go from there?

Look - I'm speaking from two generations worth of experience of a mixture of state and private schooling I cannot see the benefit that your DH hopes to gain. If you seriously wanted private schooling for 4 children you should have found a school that wanted them enough to offer significant financial help.

And you (he) needed a clear goal in sight that would not have been attainable from the state schools you rejected.

And you need to be hard headed enough to really push towards that goal - whether academic excellence or broader extra-curricular stuff or whatever. I have never heard anyone paying school fees saying they don't want the children to have to make any more effort.

I feel myself ranting.

It can be hard in any school to be the very top. I have a DD who was not pushed at Primary, in fact wasn't seen as that "good" particularly at Maths, she wasn't in the Level 6 group (although could have sat the paper if she'd wanted). She is now top set in Maths and finding it easy, fortunately her other subjects are engaging.
Level 6 is more like 4 years ahead btw, 2 is not much.

Also having learnt something once in most subjects, doesn't mean you are ahead, it is always worth consolidating and going deeper. So children learn about World War II in primary, but learn a lot more, and think much more deeply at GCSE.

I think you would have to clarify what they mean by 'year 8 work'.

It sounds a bit meaningless to me - particularly as it doesn't take into account individual children.

Really appreciate all the insights. Thank you.

I don't think it's surprising that you have only a general idea of the difference between your dc's education and what they would get at a state primary - I have no idea what other primaries are like, either.

I think it would be very hard on your children to pull them out of a school they are really enjoying - I think one of the problems of a private education is that coming out into the state sector can be a bit tricky (though many do so, and it's probably less bumpy at primary level).

Having got this far, I would keep pegging away - at least there is an end date, and the lodgers are a good idea IMO. Presumably even with the tax implications you will make enough to ease off on the arguments?

Could you get some more work? - weekend employment maybe?

Dh ought to be the one doing the weekend work as this bizarre scheme is his idea!

I can totally understand private at secondary, when parental influence on work ethic etc gives way to peer group pressure, and you want dc surrounded by hard working peers, but at primary, when YOU are your child's biggest influence, and educational gaps can easily be plugged by you, tutors, extra curricular activities etc. seems an utterly pointless exercise and waste of cash if they end up in the same place anyway!

Or will your dh suddenly insist on continuing with private when the reality of comprehensive hits?

Definitely looking for more work! That will improve things.

Many children from this school do go to state schools afterwards and I've been chatting to one or two parents of older children who have done that. They say their children are really enjoying their new schools.

We would love them to get into the grammar. This is our hope but we aren't piling on the work or pressure. They get already loads of homework and ds1 has a 11+ tutor once a week to familiarise him with the format. But beyond that, I'm not going to do more. If he can pass the 11+ brilliant.

I perhaps need to go to work full time now which I don't want to do yet because ds3 is only 2 and my last and sob, I don't want to miss out on him too much. Spoiled cow that I am.

Apologies for the rant and I will try to go away after this ...

If I were standing in your shoes I would be making an appointment with your Headmaster. You don't say whether it is a traditional (up to 13) prep or only goes to 11. Either way - have they not yet had any conversations with you about the next stage?

Your oldest is in, what, yr 5? So it's not too late to start looking for a really good (and very wealthy) fee paying senior school that might offer a proper bursary. This is what your HM is for. Just think how vindicated (and relieved) you would feel if the expensive prep actually helped you to reap a reward for all the years of penury.

And, btw, what do your children feel about it all?

The school goes up to 13 for boys. Girls leave at 11.

Really? You think we should go to the HM and chat about private secondary schools with a view to a bursary? I'm not sure he's that kind of head tbh. He's a bit disinterested. I know he's looking for another job.

However, ds1 is seen to be v. capable. Perhaps we should have a word. Thanks for the tip.

We've had the Year 5 meeting for all parents. It left us feeling pretty desolate to be honest. Most parents were anxious about their average performing children passing entrance exams to private secondary schools and equally anxious about the state options open to them.

We were made aware of the very few who pass the 11+ to get into the three Bucks grammars.

We all left the meeting feeling a bit blue and yes, wondering quite why we had spent so much money so far. Well, I certainly was! Dh is very optimistic about them either getting into grammar or doing extra well in the state sector.

Was your DH privately educated himself, OP?

Yes he was.

I wasn't apart from one year after I did really badly in my 'O' levels.

My parents got the fear and bundled me off to private school. I hated it but it certainly helped me get to grips with my 'A' levels which I insisted on doing back at state school after one year at private.

That explains a lot. I suspect he might be disappointed when your dc get to secondary to find that they're not that far ahead after all. I think you need to start preparing him for this - it's a massive investment to make for no apparent gain.

Can't see why anyone would send their DC's to private school and then state secondary. By the time they reach the end of secondary any advantage wouldn't exist IMHO. Move to an area with good schools if you are struggling to afford three at private. And agree tutoring would make far more sense and would cost a fraction of school fees.

TBH I don't think it's that unusual in grammar school areas to pay for primary in the hope of getting into a grammar.

Is your HT being realistic or managing expectations down? Does the school really get only two or three into the grammars as a rule?

It left us feeling pretty desolate to be honest.

I am horrified for you. But you should be furious.

I hope your DH chose this worthless prep. Because I'm running out of the energy to berate you further.

You need to start a new thread asking about the best (in any sense) private schools in your area.

Outside your area - have a think about whether you would consider boarding. Because you are more likely to happen upon truly useful bursaries at a big, well funded, traditional boarding school. (No doubt your useless HM will be useless about this too.) I'm hoping you know something about boarding now and have not reacted with horror...

This is obviously just one possibility (albeit the rather obvious one for prep school parents) but you've given no reason why your "very capable" oldest should not at least be offered the chance to try. And frankly, from what I've read on MN over the years, it may be less cut-throat than getting into a sought after grammar.

Seriously...

All I can say is withdrawing my very sensitive DD from her prep in year 3 to send her to the local state was the best choice we have ever made as a family.

The relief was enormous. And we were only paying for one!

Are there no bursaries?

Forgive me if I missed something, but was the reported claim that prep schools work two years ahead meant to refer to this prep school or to prep schools in general? Because, if it's the former, there seems to be a contradiction between these children supposedly working two years ahead and yet very few of them passing the test for grammar school.

What's done is done, but given the underwhelming experience at this school, you might well have done better to use state schools and spend the money saved on fees on tutors (if you feel there are gaps to be filled), extra-curricular activities and other enriching experiences.