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Original poster

First post: what is wrong with considering private schools?

999 replies

dietcokeisgreat · 07/10/2014 14:12

Dear all,

I just starting looking at mumsnet last week and joined today. Some of my work colleagues talk about it and i am thinking about options for education for my son, who is just 3 and thought i would take a look. Well, i just starting the thinking, so it is early days.
We could pay for school, or maybe not, we don't know yet. He is our first child, we are having problems getting pregnant again, so unsure if there will be more yet.

I was surprised at some really negative comments on lots of threads towards people posting for advice/ whatever about private schools. Why are they doing that? What is wrong with people thinking about different options? Or asking about a school they know that is private? Twice i read something 'well i can't pay for school' as a response. For me, its no different to whether or not people have cash for other stuff. I can't afford to live in the smarter part of town, or pay for a boarding school but that doesn't mean no one should be allowed too!

Just wondering...don't want to post something that will enrage others or be and be upset by responses ....

Thank you.

OP posts:
MumTryingHerBest · 14/10/2014 10:17

Clavinova She has name changed I believe... again this is not stated on that thread. Do you have a link to her other thread?

TheWordFactory · 14/10/2014 10:19

Mum

I don't know the thread you're talking about, but if someone is unhappy with a private school, then my advice would be to move.

But, and it's a big but, you might only get any choice about that move, if you go private. If you can get real meaningful choice ion the state system ie something you want and something you can get at the moment you need it, then great.

But that's not always easy.

kesstrel · 14/10/2014 10:21

"Which is odd in the face of it, and even odder when you consider that the demographic of Mumsnet-"

Have you considered the possibility that the self-selected (tiny) subset who are interested in discussing these issues may have self-selected on the basis that there actually IS a problem with the state schools near them? Why should those who live near excellent state schools, and send their children their, be interested in threads about private schooling?

TheWordFactory · 14/10/2014 10:23

rabbit indeed you are right.

Whether a school is good, is entirely subjective.

Obviously, our own individual opinions will merge with those of other parents sometimes. Which is all to the good.

MumTryingHerBest · 14/10/2014 10:29

kesstrel Have you considered the possibility that the self-selected (tiny) subset who are interested in discussing these issues may have self-selected on the basis that there actually IS a problem with the state schools near them? Does this also mean that the self-selected (tiny) subset who are interested in discussing these issues may have self-selected on the basis that there actually IS a problem with the private schools near them?

I suspect the majority of people are on these forums because they have a very strong interest in Education and see it as very important to their DC.

I don't think that the state schools near me are without problems. However, I also don't think that the private schools are either.

TheOriginalSteamingNit · 14/10/2014 10:30

Why should those who live near excellent state schools, and send their children their, be interested in threads about private schooling?

Because it's entirely possible to have a political opinion on something that doesn't directly affect you? Because they can see beyond the end of their self-interested noses? Because that's how political opinion actually works? There are lots of things I don't live near that I still have an opinion about!

Clavinova · 14/10/2014 10:30

I don't think it would be fair to link to the name change.

ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 14/10/2014 10:30

Hak
You focus a lot on OFSTED but it really isn't a very useful tool for a lot of people as some school results seem to change so much.

Which of these two schools would you pick

  1. Now and
  2. 2 years ago before based on the previous reports (details of previous result is in the current report)

Westminster Academy

or

Quintin Kynaston

ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 14/10/2014 10:32

Sorry - should add that this is a dilemma faced by some friends of ours who already have one child in QK and are now thinking about options for their younger DC.

MumTryingHerBest · 14/10/2014 10:33

Clavinova I don't think it would be fair to link to the name change. given that two people appear to have made the connection and that the person has posted on a public forum, I'm not sure why it would be unfair, particularly if they have clearly stated they have name changed and then posted a thread that shows an obvious link at the same time.

Never mind, I will have a look through the threads and look for the one where they have stated that they have changed their name.

TheWordFactory · 14/10/2014 10:37

nit that's true but the vast majority of people just don't care, so they don't post.

Same as the vast majority of private school users who pay just because they can and want to, and don't live near bad state schools don't post so much.
So you get a concentration of posters in a particular situation.

Clavinova · 14/10/2014 10:37

They didn't reveal the name change.

Hakluyt · 14/10/2014 10:39

I only focused on OFSTED because people talk about "failing" schools a lot- when I suspect what they mean is "a school I don't like the look of" I was trying to point out that there are actually quite strict criteria by which schools are measured. It is far from a perfect system- but, in conjunction with the league tables, it tells you a lot about a school. And if people are using words like "failing" in a arbitrary manner then we do need to define out terms.

MumTryingHerBest · 14/10/2014 10:44

Clavinova They didn't reveal the name change. given that you were able to make the connection (assuming it is not a close friend of yours), I am guessing it is going to be very obvious then. Not found it yet though.

Corestrategy · 14/10/2014 11:10

I considered a private school for my child for a long time before I actually sent him there. I see absolutely nothing morally or ethically wrong with my choice and I don't care what anyone else thinks. I have 2 DDs in state school but my DS is in a private school. He is dyslexic but is otherwise bright and sociable. The state school had no interest or aptitude for dealing with his dyslexia and he became totally disengaged and unhappy and was being failed dreadfully. I did what I could to get his previous school to educate him properly but they would not listen to me or change their approach. His private school understand his specific needs and his learning differences are addressed in an appropriate way. He enjoys school and talks about his lessons which he is now able to participate in. I am not rich and I have to be frugal in order to afford the fees but I think I made the best decision for him. I think different schools suit different children and I believe that my other 2 DCs are being educated well in their state school. Sadly, this was not the case for my DS.

rabbitstew · 14/10/2014 11:23

Some people are easily identifiable despite name changing. Not that the name Xenia springs to mind or anything...

rabbitstew · 14/10/2014 11:24

So, maybe this person is a bit like Xenia, MumTryingHerBest - their writing style, the circumstances they describe, etc, are just hugely familiar.

Corestrategy · 14/10/2014 12:05

oooh, I wondered what had happened to Xenia ;)

kesstrel · 14/10/2014 12:08

Mumtryingherbest

"Does this also mean that the self-selected (tiny) subset who are interested in discussing these issues may have self-selected on the basis that there actually IS a problem with the private schools near them?"

Quite possibly. My suggestion was simply in response to Hakylut's claim that the demographics of mumsnet were that 80% of parents must live near good State schools, and that therefore participation in these threads should reflect that. There was a strong implication in her post that therefore many of the mothers here complaining about their local state schools were lying. But she was making a fundamental error in analysis - the same one you see on online surveys where the sample isn't randomly chosen, but self-selected. You would only expect to necessarily see that 80% represented on these threads if Mumsnet HQ had randomly assigned posters to the thread.

Hakluyt · 14/10/2014 12:12

"My suggestion was simply in response to Hakylut's claim that the demographics of mumsnet were that 80% of parents must live near good State schools,"

That 's not what I said. I said I was surprised that most mumsnetters appear to live in the catchments of the 20% of failing schools.

A subtle difference. And no, I didn't imply anyone was lying. I was implying that people create their own definitions of "failing". Which is fine, but confusing, when there is a technical definition in place- we just need to know whether we are using OFSTED's definition, or whether people can define it as they choose.

kesstrel · 14/10/2014 12:27

Haklyut

"That 's not what I said. I said I was surprised that most mumsnetters appear to live in the catchments of the 20% of failing schools."

And I have explained to you why your assumption is wrong. Whatever the distribution may actually be of Mumsnetters who live near inadequate schools (interesting that you choose the word "failing" here), it is entirely reasonable to expect that this thread would disproportionately attract those who live in areas where the local state school has problems.

Whether you were implying that other posters were lying, or merely deluded, you were still incorrect in your claim about demographics.

TheOriginalSteamingNit · 14/10/2014 12:38

Oh yes, I'm sure a lot of people don't care and don't post, definitely. But I take issue with the idea that it's difficult to understand why people might care, and post, despite not being forced to use a school they find unsatisfactory. It's a bit sad to think you'd only give a toss if your personal situation was concerning you.

In real life I think responses are a lot different - I think lots of people, for example, actually don't have a huge problem with private schools as institututions, but would simply say they're full of snobby little gits and they don't want their child becoming one - and lots of people who use private schools would be much more open about saying they don't want their child in any state school, rather than that it's just a shame all the schools near them are single sex/shit holes/faith schools whatever. Such is my observation from what I hear people say, anyway - it's just on MN that you have the spur of challenge and the luxury of forming thoughts more carefully.

sorryforher · 14/10/2014 12:43

"Whether a school is good, is entirely subjective."

What - in the way our judgement of a good hospital or restaurant in entirely subjective?

There are measures aren't there, to judge the efficacy of a school?

How are children achieving when they arrive at the school and how are they achieving when they leave? What progress to they make? What do the parents of children at the school feel about it? How broad is the curriculum? Is behaviour good? Do children feel safe there?

Whether you LIKE a school is a different matter, or feel it is right for your child.

But how 'good' a school is? I think this can be measured.

Hakluyt · 14/10/2014 12:46

"entirely reasonable to expect that this thread would disproportionately attract those who live in areas where the local state school has problems"

Would it? Apart from TOSN's justifiable gloom at the suggestion that nobody is interested in education except as it affects them personally, I suspect that most people (certainly most of the people I know) have decided on using the private sector from day 1, and most of the "we have no choice" stuff is post hoc rationalisation.

kesstrel · 14/10/2014 12:56

"But I take issue with the idea that it's difficult to understand why people might care, and post, despite not being forced to use a school they find unsatisfactory."

Has anyone actually argued that? Not I, certainly.

What I did was point out that Haklyut was wrong to claim that the participants on this kind of thread could be expected to match the overall demographic of Mumsnetters in general. Because you wouldn't expect that, not if you understand the difference between random samples and self-selected samples. So the basis of her claim that a number of her fellow posters here must be deluded is simply wrong.