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Original poster

First post: what is wrong with considering private schools?

999 replies

dietcokeisgreat · 07/10/2014 14:12

Dear all,

I just starting looking at mumsnet last week and joined today. Some of my work colleagues talk about it and i am thinking about options for education for my son, who is just 3 and thought i would take a look. Well, i just starting the thinking, so it is early days.
We could pay for school, or maybe not, we don't know yet. He is our first child, we are having problems getting pregnant again, so unsure if there will be more yet.

I was surprised at some really negative comments on lots of threads towards people posting for advice/ whatever about private schools. Why are they doing that? What is wrong with people thinking about different options? Or asking about a school they know that is private? Twice i read something 'well i can't pay for school' as a response. For me, its no different to whether or not people have cash for other stuff. I can't afford to live in the smarter part of town, or pay for a boarding school but that doesn't mean no one should be allowed too!

Just wondering...don't want to post something that will enrage others or be and be upset by responses ....

Thank you.

OP posts:
TalkinPeace · 14/10/2014 12:59

This reply has been deleted

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MumTryingHerBest · 14/10/2014 13:00

sorryforher But how 'good' a school is? I think this can be measured. so how is it measured in the private sector?

kesstrel · 14/10/2014 13:02

"I suspect that most people (certainly most of the people I know) have decided on using the private sector from day 1, and most of the "we have no choice" stuff is post hoc rationalisation."

You are entitled to your suspicions, obviously. However, there are more than 20,000 schools in the UK. I suspect that "most of the people you know" are unlikely to represent a reasonable sample of those schools, especially if they are mostly confined to a few geographical areas.

KeeperOfSouls · 14/10/2014 13:02

Hakluyt

The issue I have with your posts is that you blindly believe in OFSTED. A "good" in OFSTED's eyes is good enough for you. Hence, you can't believe that more than 20% of schools are failing children. They can. No matter what OFSTED rates them as.

I have been around the world a bit. I've seen some schools where if OFSTED rated it, it would be completely off the charts "Ultra Outstanding Plus". So our local catchment school is rated "good" right now. I have seen a LOT better ones, so I'd say it's not!!!

MumTryingHerBest · 14/10/2014 13:05

KeeperOfSouls The issue I have with your posts is that you blindly believe in OFSTED. I believe it was you who was using OFSTED to demonstrate the performance of a school.

KeeperOfSouls · 14/10/2014 13:06

It's always relative, isn't it. If I had been in the UK all my life, hardly ventured outside my county even, maybe I'd be happy with whatever school was local, because I wouldn't know any better.

KeeperOfSouls · 14/10/2014 13:09

Mum

I was pointing out that despite it being rated as "good" by OFSTED, it wasn't. So I don't believe the Gospel of OFSTED. It was others who pointed out that because 80% of schools are rated "good", it's odd that so many people complain (like we shouldn't complain).

TalkinPeace · 14/10/2014 13:11

OFSTED are a political organisation.

DH was in a school that was failed for safeguarding as the fence at the back of the playground was too low.
The fence belonged to Network Rail, the school were not allowed to interfere with it in any way.

He was also at a school during one of the first and thankfully few non Value Added assessments.
It was marked down for outcomes, disregarding the fact that it was in Paulsgrove.

He also attended a school that Ofsted rated as outstanding and he regarded as disorganised, scary and chaotic

For a short while Ofsted thought that the 1700 pupil secondary with no outside recreation space was a good idea

OFSTED ratings have to be taken in context
The comments are code, not raw meaning

MumTryingHerBest · 14/10/2014 13:16

KeeperOfSouls I was pointing out that despite it being rated as "good" by OFSTED, it wasn't. So I don't believe the Gospel of OFSTED. That's not how it came across to me. If I recall you listed a number of failings of the school that had been given in two different OFSTED reports and then questioned how it had been rated good on the basis of these points. Surely this suggests that you did, in fact, feel the reports were accurate in relation to the failings of the school.

I haven't even looked at the OFSTED reports for my local schools and I imagine the majority are rated good or outstanding on the basis of the results they get. Not convinced that will indicate whether they will be a good fit for my DCs though.

KeeperOfSouls · 14/10/2014 13:46

Well... Mum. I was questioning why the RATING / SCORE itself did not reflect what was written in the report. It's like companies boasting of certain things, and then putting all the bad points in the small print, hoping no one will read them. It's like giving someone a "B" when the work was at best a "C-". A lot of parents / people do not dive into the small print. They just say "this school is OFSTED "outstanding", etc.

I came to the discussion quite late. There were SEVERAL mentions of OFSTED prior to me joining in.

TalkinPeace · 14/10/2014 13:52

Nobody should choose a school just based on the raw grade from Ofsted.

If you have no real choice in schooling (as is the case for around 2/3 of the population) its an irrelevance.
If you have a limited choice, you'll go by local reputation, not ofsted
If you are really bothered, the full data sets are available

so the rubbish that went on in schools in my day cannot be repeated

morethanpotatoprints · 14/10/2014 15:44

You have to go by the feel of a school, make several visits, speak to other parents and or teachers if you can.
We are visiting a school on Saturday that dd wants to attend, less than 2 years ago it was given 3 months to get its act together.
On paper the school doesn't look good and terms like not following policies and procedures for child protection- meant that the filing cupboard was full and some students files had been left out. Certainly not good but not as bad as could be imagined.

3kidsandme · 14/10/2014 16:21

One of the schools near to me has recently been rated "outstanding". I am sure it IS outstanding at what it does. It is outstanding at sorting out the social/ drug issues which involve the dcs. It is outstanding at teaching all the dcs from different countries English. The SATS results are appalling as far as I can see but " outstanding" given the intake. I would not dream of sending my dcs there because we have no social or drugs problems and they speak excellent English. They are in private schools that really are outstanding for them
Hakluyt...why are you so against private schools but in favour of grammar schools...you say your ds failed the 11+ so I imagine you agree with grammar schools???

MarriedDadOneSonOneDaughter · 14/10/2014 16:21

Talkinpeace

"no real choice in schooling (as is the case for around 2/3 of the population)"

I've seen this elsewhere but haven't seen the data behind it. Is that really the case? Or is it that people don't count schools they don't like as a "choice" and say they have no choice except for one that happens to suit? (i.e. a single sex, a co-ed, a faith school, a non-faith school etc)?

ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 14/10/2014 16:37

3kids
I have had many disagreements on schools with Hakluyt but I will say that she has been consistently against selection in schools. She happens to live in a fully grammar school area so only has the option of letting her DC sit the 11+ or sending them to a Secondary Modern. There are no Comprehensive schools where she is.

TalkinPeace · 14/10/2014 16:44

Marrieddad
Single sex schools of the non Catholic variety only exist in a few very large cities. They are practically unheard of in the rest of the country.

Catholic schools are not very Catholic, often no longer co-ed and without a decent bus or train, not an option for most.

Other faith schools : again only in the big cities, primarily London, Birmingham, Leeds/Bradford ~ the rest of the country just has schools

Selective schools are basically only in a few bits of the country - and again without a decent bus service traipsing off to a grammar miles away is not an option.

In the shires there is a free or subsidised bus to your catchment school if you live more than 3 miles away. Nearer than that you walk.
If you do not choose that school you have to find your own way there - by definition it will be further away. That costs money and time.

The vast majority of children go to their local school or the next one along. They get into the one they put at the top of their form.

The vast majority of parents all over MN who avoid the Education boards find the angst of the Grammar school and private school parents diverting but irrelevant.

MumTryingHerBest · 14/10/2014 16:51

3kidsandme I would not dream of sending my dcs there because we have no social or drugs problems and they speak excellent English. For the record, I went to a school that had 3 private schools on the doorstep. When parties were held the kids from the private schools were the main suppliers of drugs and alcohol (although not the exclusive suppliers I will emphasis). This was nothing to do with the school, it was purely down to the fact that some of them had access to the money needed to buy them.

Just to be clear drugs, drink etc. is not an exclusive issue with state schools or private for that matter.

HmmAnOxfordComma · 14/10/2014 16:58

Is it ok if you work in a school and don't like it, trust its Ofsted rating or believe your child would be happy there, to send him/her to a private school?

TalkinPeace · 14/10/2014 17:01

HmmAnOxford
As private school is beyond the means of all but the SLT in most state schools, that is a pretty irrelevant question.
The maximum pay for a state classroom teacher is £45k (central london, top of spine) - that does not pay school fees and a mortgage

3kidsandme · 14/10/2014 17:02

the private school my dcs attend has no problems with alcohol or drugs ...but it is primary.... the state school is also primary but has problems with both...from the dcs and the parents.....I do not want my dcs mixing with these dcs....would you?
We can pay so we do...for an outstanding private school (my definition of outstanding, not OFSTEDS) which gets the dcs into good (again my definition...in this case meaning academic with well behaved dcs who want to learn) secondary schools.

MumTryingHerBest · 14/10/2014 17:02

HmmAnOxfordComma Is it ok if you work in a school and don't like it, trust its Ofsted rating or believe your child would be happy there, to send him/her to a private school? Are you asking for permission or making a statement? A rather loaded question I think.

3kidsandme · 14/10/2014 17:05

TalkingPeace...it does happen...some teachers have partners who are big earners. Some of the dcs at my dcs school have parents who teach in the state sector.

HmmAnOxfordComma · 14/10/2014 17:06

Not exactly true. If you can run a household on the one salary (which many folks do and have a Sahp for a while) and have only ONE child, you can afford to pay fees out of any full time net salary.

I assure you that I am not on SLT or even a teacher but can pay one set of fees out of my salary.

Actually lots of my teaching colleagues and friends have dc at private schools (often prep only or senior only tbf).

HmmAnOxfordComma · 14/10/2014 17:08

I was being sarky, of course, and a bit rude. Just adding to the discussion though: if you work in an Outstanding school and wouldn't send your kids there, I think it's interesting (I do, and know lots of others).

TalkinPeace · 14/10/2014 17:08

some teachers have partners who are big earners
Indeed they do : in which case they are part of the 7% not the 93%

And TBH the amount of drugs that go on in private schools (pile a load of rich kids together and ...) is far, far more than in many state schools
but private schools are, generally, better at hushing up the expulsions