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Original poster

First post: what is wrong with considering private schools?

999 replies

dietcokeisgreat · 07/10/2014 14:12

Dear all,

I just starting looking at mumsnet last week and joined today. Some of my work colleagues talk about it and i am thinking about options for education for my son, who is just 3 and thought i would take a look. Well, i just starting the thinking, so it is early days.
We could pay for school, or maybe not, we don't know yet. He is our first child, we are having problems getting pregnant again, so unsure if there will be more yet.

I was surprised at some really negative comments on lots of threads towards people posting for advice/ whatever about private schools. Why are they doing that? What is wrong with people thinking about different options? Or asking about a school they know that is private? Twice i read something 'well i can't pay for school' as a response. For me, its no different to whether or not people have cash for other stuff. I can't afford to live in the smarter part of town, or pay for a boarding school but that doesn't mean no one should be allowed too!

Just wondering...don't want to post something that will enrage others or be and be upset by responses ....

Thank you.

OP posts:
KeeperOfSouls · 13/10/2014 23:42

Mum

Getting C's and D's at GCSE is not exactly rocket science, is it!? She could have achieved a lot more, and she could have conquered uni more confidently had she had the proper foundation.

KeeperOfSouls · 13/10/2014 23:44

Mum What do you mean my DH has no qualifications? I never said that.

MumTryingHerBest · 13/10/2014 23:45

KeeperOfSouls Mum What do you mean my DH has no qualifications? I never said that. Sorry, typo, meant had.

KeeperOfSouls · 13/10/2014 23:46

rabbitstew Which kind of goes to show, KeeperofSouls, that the timetable for schools to improve as set by Ofsted/govt pressure is ridiculous, doesn't it?

I agree with you.

Hakluyt · 13/10/2014 23:51

So, to recap. You are talking about a situation which turns out to have happened at least 10, probably more, years ago. You are quoting sections from OFSTED reports from that time and misattributing them-and somehow think this is relevant to state education now............

Hakluyt · 13/10/2014 23:52

And since when has being "leftist" means you hate academia?????

KeeperOfSouls · 13/10/2014 23:52

Mum DH and I have known each other for a very long time, and my acquaintance is much older than me… maybe I should have called him 'family friend' instead. He knew what DH was capable of because DH understood high-level Maths just from a text book after leaving high school (but before A-levels)… without learning this at school, and he found it a pity that the school 'messed' DH up by not fostering a culture where 'learning' was seen as good or even 'cool'.

KeeperOfSouls · 13/10/2014 23:53

Hak - not correlated. Just that DMiL was both.

KeeperOfSouls · 13/10/2014 23:54

Ans Hak - NO. Why do you always make those assumptions? All those quotes from OFSTED reports are from the last COUPLE of years - as I said before. Couple of years = TWO years.

MumTryingHerBest · 13/10/2014 23:56

KeeperOfSouls he found it a pity that the school 'messed' DH up by not fostering a culture where 'learning' was seen as good or even 'cool'.

(where teachers told DPiL to send him private!)

Maybe if he had gone to this school he would have done much better:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/secondary/2205492-unresolved-set-problem

happygardening · 14/10/2014 06:22

mum no one has said all independent schools are good, in particular there are some pretty mediocre small preps schools out there which the child discussed in this thread is at. I believe this child was moved from the state sector because he was very badly bullied and I think this child has to get a fairly low mark at CE so the school probably believes he's in the right set for the marks he requires and in comparison with those going for academic scholarships.

MumTryingHerBest · 14/10/2014 08:18

happygardening mum no one has said all independent schools are good I think there have been a lot of posts on this thread that have certainly implied it.

happygardening there are some pretty mediocre small preps schools out there which the child discussed in this thread is at. Interesting that you class the school in the thread as mediocre.

happygardening I notice the advice you give on the thread is along the lines of wait it out. Would you have given the same advice to the parent if they were posting about a state school?

Hakluyt · 14/10/2014 08:32

Nobody says that all private schools are good. But that is certainly the implication. Or at least the implication is that the worst private school is necessarily better than the best state school. Somebody always responds to anyone who has concerns about their child's school with "can you go private?"

And the attitude to state schools, when it isn't just downright "full of chair throwing knuckle draggers- wouldn't touch with a barge pole" is "well, I'm sure there are good state schools but the ones round me are dire". This is why I have wondered aloud why most mumsnetters seem to live clustered round 20% of state schools. Which is odd in the face of it, and even odder when you consider that the demographic of Mumsnet- and particularly of mumsnetters who can consider private education- suggests that they are likely to live in prosperous areas which are likely to have higher performing state schools.

To my amusement, I have noticed a new development- the "well OFSTED have rated the school "good" but I don't agree so as far as I am concerned it's a failing school" meme. Reminds me of the great "an A from a state school isn't as good as an A from a private school" debacle of earlier this year........

TheWordFactory · 14/10/2014 08:40

Hak of course people suggest going private when state school isn't working!

It's the only way to get any meaningful choice.

Example; my friend is unhappy with her DD's secondary school. There is no setting. The provision for able students is poor.

She won't get into the other secondary school in the town because it's over subscribed.

She might get a school in the neighbouring town, but her choices will be limited.

The only way to ensure she has any proper choice is to go private.

TheWordFactory · 14/10/2014 08:44

And yes, the school she wants to leave is outstanding accordning to OFSTED.

But she doesn't think so. Not for her DD.

And lets be honest, she knows far better than an inspector that visited for a couple of days a couple of years ago.

You seem to think that just because a government body declares something marvelous, that it is.

Your trust in OFSTED is, as ever, sweet, but not shared by everyone.

elltee · 14/10/2014 08:58

Errr...Chocolate Wombat - how exactly, at primary level do private schools create confidence in their educational outcomes? Because the majority are not inspected by Ofsted but by the ISI which based on the reports I've read about schools I know is somewhat fluffier in its approach. They don't publish anything equating to KS2 results or the detailed statistics provided by state in most cases - the only information that they give about their outcomes is where their Y6 cohort go on to. Oh and the usual statements in their marketing literature.

Y6 cohorts in our area's private schools are usually around half the size of the Reception/Y1 cohort, but no information is provided on why these children are absent at this stage.

Some people move for personal reasons, some go to feeder preps for major public schools at 7+, some leave because of bullying, some leave for financial reasons, some children are managed out because they aren't making the grade or are dyslexic, dyspraxic or have other SEN that the school can't be bothered to deal with.

Funnily enough there are no statistics on the second group.

In contrast, and in addition to Ofsted reports, state primary schools give a lot of information on achievement at KS1 and KS2. They can only ask a pupil to leave in fairly exceptional circumstances.

It's funny you use the word faith, because in my view a substantial number of parents choosing private education at primary level are basing their decision on a pretty meagre set of facts about the educational outcomes the school they're choosing delivers.

rabbitstew · 14/10/2014 09:02

Well, I guess, when it comes down to it, Winchester or Eton could be awful schools for the wrong child, too. Sometimes, a school which is outstanding for some is awful for others. Some schools are better than others at catering for a wide range of children. No school is perfect. The schools I would definitely try to avoid are those with patently poor leadership, inexplicably high staff turnover, and where there is no clear direction or ethos, as they will be doing a bad job by everybody.

Hakluyt · 14/10/2014 09:05

If your child is actually at a school and it doesn't suit- then of course you should look at alternatives. Not all schools suit all children and vice versa. But private and panacea are not synonyms! And if a school manages be be outstanding when it does not adequately cater for more able students then obviously it had fiddled the figures somehow- because the OFSTED framework would not allow this if properly applied.

MumTryingHerBest · 14/10/2014 09:35

TheWordFactory Hak of course people suggest going private when state school isn't working! yet in the link I provided, no one has suggested going state given that the private school isn't working. The advice appears to be to wait it out.

On that particular thread it actually looks like those who have contributed to the thread are far from surprised by what the OP has posted. Of course no one seems to be disgusted with the fact that the OP is actually paying for the privileged of going through that experience.

I am also surprised that no one is concerned that the child's academic advancement is being hampered rather than being encouraged.

happygardening I believe this child was moved from the state sector because he was very badly bullied there is no mention of this on that thread. Has the OP posted another thread somewhere that states this? The only mention of bullying I can see is with regards to his existing school.

Hakluyt · 14/10/2014 09:39

And the suggestion that there is no bullying in private schools is just so bonkers......

Clavinova · 14/10/2014 09:45

I agree that not all private schools are good and plenty of parents move between different private schools to find one that suits their dc better. You only have to read the opinions on TripAdvisor to realise that one person's experience of anything can differ from another's.

MumTrying - You keep linking to a child at a particular private school - we may or may not know the whole story here but this child left his previous state school because he was bored, demotivated and a little disruptive - maybe he has just been unlucky but perhaps he has issues his mother doesn't want to acknowledge.

Almost all the primary schools near me are good or outstanding but not the secondary schools. My catchment secondary is overly large for the area as there is too much choice - private, faith, superselective grammars and aptitude tests for out of borough schools. Some dc are centrally allocated to the catchment school from nearby London boroughs. The school has improved recently and received a 'good' Ofsted this year (has been in special measures) but the academic results are not good enough for me; the average GCSE grade for high achievers is C+ and D - for middle achievers. It is quite clear that Ofsted are happy with C grade results but I am not.

MumTryingHerBest · 14/10/2014 09:48

TheWordFactory And yes, the school she wants to leave is outstanding accordning to OFSTED.

I'd just like to highlight something, I know very few parents who have based their decision for State Secondary on OFSTED reports. Far more of them are looking at catchment, admissions criteria, league tables, DfE School performance tables stats., open day visits and discussions with local parents who have children at the school.

I would be very surprised if you see many references to OFSTED on the elevenplus forums either.

MumTryingHerBest · 14/10/2014 09:55

Clavinova - MumTrying - You keep linking to a child at a particular private school - we may or may not know the whole story here but this child left his previous state school because he was bored, demotivated and a little disruptive

Does the OP have another thread somewhere or have they deleted some posts as I can't see any reference to their DCs previous state school? In fact I see nothing to suggest that they were ever in a state school at all.

Clavinova · 14/10/2014 10:11

She has name changed I believe and gave brief details of problems in his state school - some behaviour management strategies etc.

Hakluyt · 14/10/2014 10:17

"previous state school because he was bored, demotivated and a little disruptive "

And she is posting that he is "bored, demotivated and a little disruptive" at the private school he is now at.......

Going private seems to have worked well in that case, doesn't it?