First post: what is wrong with considering private schools?

[dietcokeisgreat]

Dear all,

I just starting looking at mumsnet last week and joined today. Some of my work colleagues talk about it and i am thinking about options for education for my son, who is just 3 and thought i would take a look. Well, i just starting the thinking, so it is early days.
We could pay for school, or maybe not, we don't know yet. He is our first child, we are having problems getting pregnant again, so unsure if there will be more yet.

I was surprised at some really negative comments on lots of threads towards people posting for advice/ whatever about private schools. Why are they doing that? What is wrong with people thinking about different options? Or asking about a school they know that is private? Twice i read something 'well i can't pay for school' as a response. For me, its no different to whether or not people have cash for other stuff. I can't afford to live in the smarter part of town, or pay for a boarding school but that doesn't mean no one should be allowed too!

Just wondering...don't want to post something that will enrage others or be and be upset by responses ....

Thank you.

Amber not less trustworthy but again only in my experience they just seem generally less committed to your individual child.
But this is hardly surprising. Firstly it's a boarding school, teachers are not just teaching they are in loco parentis responsible for your child welfare 24 hours a day every day he's in school, I think I read somewhere at DS2's school there is one teacher for every 7 boys, so teachers just have more time, his HM only has a small teaching commitment his role is to be completely responsible for the educational development but also all aspects of pastoral care for the boys in his house. Living along side a child, eating, talking, watching them grow up, make mistakes, supporting them through difficulties bereavement, parents divorcing, etc, celebrating their successes exams sports inter house competitions, watching them pass and fail exams, fall out with friends completely changes the pupil teacher relationship. It's inevitable that they are going to be more committed to your child. I really don't know where he gets the energy from.

Nancy. It seems to many that schooling in Cheshire is a panacea, but if you do not get the right schooling , your child's future goes up in flames!.

smokepole

I was one of those children, left school with nothing and completely slipped through the net.
I came across children from the area Nancy knows, I had to mix at an activity we all did. They were horrible to me and really knocked my confidence.
Now, my dd all of her own making is in exactly the same situation, the children are nice but dd feels out of place sometimes, a bit of an outsider.
She is very confident and driven though not like I was.,

TOSN he is my "kid" but I'm labouring under the impression that we're all in it together so to speak. Not two different camps. I wouldn't mind them asking me what I'm going to do about it if they were prepared to also do something about it but a they're not. I'm talking about DS1 who has dyslexia. It doesn't matter what I do at home; if I follow ed psych recommendations if teachers file the recommendations under B for bin.
I'm not talking about a badly behaved child I'm talking about a child who needs an extra bit of help, I can help him at home I can provide the right pens, photograph notes, work on his organisational/processing skills but what it the point if this help doesn't continue at school?
Over the years I've been asked "what do you think the problem is?" (Pre ed psych assessment) How the hell do I know I'm not a teacher. You don't go to your GP explain you symptoms for him to say "what do you think is wrong with you?" When you say "I don't know" for him to then say he doesn't know either so never mind we'll just keep doing what we're already doing even though it's obviously not working, or even worse moan that it's not working and blame you. Your GP wouldn't blame you for not reading the instructions on your box of tablets if you were blind.

Hmm, smokepoll, your post almost seems like a local 'in joke'.
What with you mentioning flames and panacea in the same sentence.

Sorry, Smokepole.

Oh Morethan, there is dome hellish brattery up here. Some kids come across as unbelievably entitled. I have actually witnessed a child throw his iPad on the ground and his father shout that he wasn't having another as that was his 4th that year! the child was 10yrs! I stood there mouth wide open feeling the daggers from my own 10yr old who is expecting one this Christmas and not much else and only then because he has put all his birthday money towards it.

Nancy. Just a bit of fun from 270 miles away! HAHA

with you talking about Nice but dim , could not resist it.

sorry......

This area of Cheshire has always been the same, there are some really nice people who have pots of money and there are some nasty horrible people with lots of money.
Nothing has changed since I was a child.

Morethan. I know from previous discussions, your DD is talented enough to go further than any of those little S...

Must go to bed!

But Morethan, it will only get worse when AZ finally head south taking all the mild mannered scientists and their bright but humble kids with them leaving their houses to be bought up by Gav Done Good with his van and his ridiculously orange wife who now think they're better than everyone they grew up with even though their kids are rude brats and they don't understand that dignity, decency and class have zero to do with money. I'm sure your DD will do well.

Nancy

I know what you mean, I think we have met 2 of those up to now.
I have to say in all honesty the grammar schools lads are lovely with dd and they go up to y8, dd is only 10.
She's used to 2 older brothers though and can hold her own.
I think she struggles to relate to the girls and in fairness them to her.

Happygardening - don't most of the staff at boarding schools have families and self contained accommodation? They did at my school. We had housemasters and housemistresses, but we certainly didn't live with them - not in a family sense.

Personally I can't imagine wanting a job where I was expected to be on duty from 7 in the morning until bedtime, supervising other people's children, while also taking on a full teaching timetable and running extra curricula activities and clubs. When would you have time for your own family?

We'll, if my child was at boarding school, I would expect the school to deal with things like homework and normal discipline. Because the school is taking over some of the parenting. But with a child at day school, I would expect to be involved- certainly in any homework issues- the clue being in the name,

It has to be a good academic private school otherwise it's full of snobbery, drugs and bullying and you'd be better of in the local comp.

to be fair the op is asking about her 3 year old, I'm not sure the average mixed pre-prep is equivalent to a crack den.

"It has to be a good academic private school otherwise it's full of snobbery, drugs and bullying and you'd be better of in the local comp."

Academic or otherwise you can still get all those things.

Teachers in Boarding schools do have a massive job. Housemasters and Mistresses usually have a significantly reduced teaching load, but in terms of the numbers of hours they work over a typical week during term time, it is extremely high, especially if you add in times they are on call and can be contacted, even if not actively with the kids.
Many teachers in such schools would say they have no personal life in year, time. They really do put their lives and families on hold during that time. Often their own children are involved in the school too,so doing school based activities 7 days a week, sometimes as boarders themselves. In this sense, parents avoid neglecting their own children, as they are receiving input from other teaching staff. Often teachers are married to other teachers, so everyone is in it together, which helps. And for boarding staff, there are 'down' times in the day, so whilst the day may begin at 7 and end at 11 sometimes, there will often be a 2 or 3 hour gap in the day, to spend time with family, or juggle, which is more possible if two of you work those hours and can be popping in and out of home, which is manageable if you live on site.

And Boarding Schools have very long holidays. So whilst the term time weeks are truly manic, there are long stretches to go away and have down time with family. Some people just do Boarding school work when they are young and then. Move out to day schools,me specially when they have young children. Others stick at it and their children get fully involved too. It really is a way of life,with the staff being a genuine community because of the amount of time spent together.

So, no the input isn't the same as you would get from your parents. But pupils at boarding schools do get a lot of input and the relationship with staff (especially house staff) is very different to that of a satiate school.

Personally,I think the relationships between staff and pupils are different in independent day schools too. When staff spend hours with pupils outside the classroom (as often happens during activities such as CCF, long trips abroad, whole day theatre production rehearsals etc) which is commonplace and frequent, relationships develop and become different.

And I know that there are extra curricular activities in state schools too. However, many secondaries seem to lock up and want staff and students out by 4.30.

I think the scale of extra curricular is different. So whilst most schools might offer some clubs, in state schools many are short (due to short lunchtimes and difficulty in providing after school activities)
People in private secondaries might be coached twice a week for 1 hour 30 mins each time, then travel to away matches and spend half of Saturday at matches with their teacher, as well as going on a 10 day tour abroad each year.
They may rehearse for a play for 2 hours each week and then all day on Sunday, and then tour their play in the holidays to a theatre festival, with that teacher.

"When staff spend hours with pupils outside the classroom (as often happens during activities such as CCF, long trips abroad, whole day theatre production rehearsals etc) which is commonplace and frequent, relationships develop and become different."

Just wondering- why do you think this is a private school thing? CCF is, I think, thankfully confined to private schools, but surely rehearsals, coaching,trips and so on are common to both sectors?

And travelling to "away" matches? It would be a bit tricky if state schools only played home ones!

Actually CCF is n't confined to private schools and provides the opportunity of for example free Duke of Edinburgh and flying lessons for those who could n't afford them. A lot of children seem to get quite a bit out of it even if they don't relish the thought of drill etc.

As I said, extra curricular activities are not confined to independent schools. it is the scope and scale of provision and involvement that I think differs.

So State schools may have sports teams, but few will be fielding 5 teams per year group, per sport every Saturday of term time, meaning a large percentage of the year group get to be involved regularly.

Most State schools have an orchestra and a choir (although not all I understand) but few will have over 60%taking instrumental lessons! not offer 6 orchestras, 5 choirs, 12 or more ensembles etc.

Most State schools won't have 100% of the 4th and 5th Form involved in either CCF or DofE or both. And most won't have over 50 people each year achieving gold DofE.

The reasons are several;

• First, most staff are involved and heavily involved in extra curricular. There is a culture of it and an understanding that it is part of working in the independent sector. Additionally, it is often built into contracts to ensure continuity. So, a contract might say teacher X will be involved in DofE and Upper School Debating and coach U13C Hockey.
• Pupils expect to be involved and are often required to be so. Whilst much maybe optional, a certain level of wider involvement is expected...so if you are picked for the teams, you are required to play (often in the parental contract) and involvement in DofE or CCF to a certain level is often required.
• Parents expect a wide range of provision and that their children can be involved. So only running 1 team per year isn't possible as this will mean so few get to take part. If you are paying, you expect there to be enough provision for everyone who would like to be involved.
• schools have historic net works with other schools that they meet for sports matches, debating, Model United Nations, Chess, subject-based talks and visiting speakers.

I know many state school teachers do a lot in terms of extra curricular.....but many don't too. It is rarely in their contracts and it is usually not at weekends. Having short lunch breaks and buildings which lock up early makes it difficult. And most state schools don't have the networks with other schools which have built historically to mean that certain year groups have games on certain days, so can meet with other schools for fixtures. I remember reading a thread recently where a music teacher said that in a school of over 200 Year 7 pupils, only 6 played an instrument and only 2 people wanted to start one. And it was an affluent area school.

So I wasn't criticising State school extra curricular provision. I know there will be people who cite excellent schools (often primary) who offer loads, but in secondary schools, it is the range and level of involvement of both staff and pupils that seems to be different in the independent sector.

CCF isn't the same as DofE.
CCF Is Combined Cadet Force - it it an officer training cadet arm of the armed forces within independent schools. Many schools have Navy, Army and Airforce Sections, with staff who are comissioned, as well as resident Armed Force and visiting personnel.

Many state schools offer a DofE programme. Some take it through to Gold level, others deal just with Bronze or Silver. Some state schools have huge involvement, others much more limited involvement.

Some also offer a Cadets programme too....this is a non-officer based activity led by the armed forces. Cadets is also available outside schools, often as Navy, Airforce or Army.