Would you call this RE or worship?

[whatsthemattermaryjane]

Before I take the story further please understand that yes, this is a CofE school, but that we live in one of the rural areas where the only schools are church schools. We did not therefore 'choose' this school the way parents in more urban areas might - it simply is the school to which village children go. Next school is 5 miles, also CofE. Next school after that, another 7 miles, also CofE...

So, my point. Every week, along with daily short class assemblies and prayers, and a weekly whole school assembly, there is a 'lesson' called 'Open The Book'. This lesson is taught by the vicar, who reads a Bible story to the children and then they must act the story out. The children are told that this is a true story that they are re-enacting. This happens every week all through the year for all age groups, always led by the vicar and always a Bible story.

Mumsnetters, in your opinions, is this Religious Education, or is it an act of worship?

You are really scary, actually, scler. Really terribly blinkered.

I strongly hope that your brave new world does not come to fruition. Given the extreme views that you hold, I think and hope that it won't.

What you could do is read some of the threads on here about child abuse scandals, in rotherham, elsewhere, abuse by celebrities/politicians/others in power and abuse by the church.

You might see that there is a common strand or two in what happened, and it was not that the children received sex education and that the people they told were athiests.

I can only assume that you have no idea how outrageously offensive you are being. Because you are so sure you are right you have tunnel vision.

I strongly hope that your brave new world does not come to fruition. Given the extreme views that you hold, I think and hope that it won't

I dont know what you think my values are or what sortof society YOU THINK Iwant, but I do know that you DO NOT know what my values really are because I have not told you ( and you have never asked).

You appear to be the one blinkered and arrogant too here. To claim you know what I think without ever even asking is pure arogance ( and if that is the respect you give others, then jesus must have wept).

Equally, where is your tolerance now?

Well, the thread has taken a scary turn moved on a bit, but in answer to the OP, I don't think it sounds like worship per se but it does sound like a narrow education.

If they also acted out stories from Hindu/ancient Egyptian/etc traditions, and it was made clear that 'some people believe this and some people believe other things' then that would be different.

and so much fornot being a bully hey SZS?

I am not going to ask, but am wondering what kind of monsterous
"values" you have decided I must have. I am equally sure I do not want to know what sort of satanic creature you have turned me into in your mind.

What you could do is read some of the threads on here about child abuse scandals, in rotherham, elsewhere, abuse by celebrities/politicians/others in power and abuse by the church

I think the critical shared quality there may well be power. That and a general failure on the part of community to act because it felt the need to be tolerant of all kinds of differences. It is tolerance without differentiation and without regard to any underlying principle of right and wrong
(because we have none maybe in a secular society?) it seems to me, rather than anything else. You need to look at the bigger picture there SZS rather than vilifying me.

You think the Roman Catholic church is tolerant of all kinds of differences.

Right.

Do you think child abuse doesn't get ignored in countries which are intolerant?

Hahahahahahahhahahaha.

In some it is actively encouraged.

FFS.

I don't think it can count as indoctrination, or not very effectively, if you just tell your child that all that stuff sits within a religious tradition that you don't hold. It isn't worship (or at least not unless your child is actively choosing to do it as a form of prayer, which (s)he could do for anything, if (s)he is that way inclined ) but it is religious instruction and you can just say "this isn't what I / we believe".

Children can cope with this, just as they can manage learning about swearing, different deeply held political views, relationship breakdown, etc, all the things that seem "unsuitable" for children but that they gradually get to grips with as long as they have someone to talk it all through with, because it's all part of growing up, which is what they are busy doing, most of them very effectively, at their own pace.

HOWEVER

what is mistaken about the premise of this thread, and many views on it, is that there is a category of Objective Fact which can and should be taught at school, and this is entirely separate from a category of Matters of Opinion / Ideology, which should be left out. Even the distinction between RE and evangelism (more correctly, as opposed to worship, which is the activity of praying) is based on an idea that a sort of faux objective lofty "rationalism" that floats above 6 religions, is correct. This is an ideological position and it is as vulnerable to challenge as any other.

I do not think anything ofthe sort SZS. Again , I do not know what you think , I think.

I am beginning to think though that Lovers is correct, this is getting scary.

You are trying to attribute to me things I have not said, netiehr are they things I believe or holdas values even.

*I think for the record I may need to state what my values are. I am sorry to hijack this thread. This will be my last post on this topic. At the top ofmy values list I would place characteristics of kindness, self control, gentleness and tenacity and these are the things I want to see developed in my DC. I also consider that a society without love or charity is devoid of heart and spirit.

I know these things are values often held by many belief groups. I may not hold any such organised beliefs but I consider the above important enough for me to borrow them.

I consider education to be important because education gives knowledge and knowledge is power and education once given cannot be taken away. I also believe we need discernment - the ability to think and to recognise when something is reasonable and when it is being taken too far.

I hope that makes it clear what kind of world I would like ( ideally ) for my DC

I would place all of the above beyond the secular values of respect, tolerance, community and anti bullying agendas in any kind of assembly or school worship as offered to me by others.

I don't think you are best placed to define what values are secular or not sclerderabbey. Those values you listed as "secular" are examples, not an exhaustive list, nor do secular values exclude the values that you have listed as your own.

Pico - all those values I listed are not secular. They are in fact very Christian (read Galations 5 / 22-23., Fruits of the Spirit). I did say I borrowed them.

I am pretty sure that people were being kind, gentle, loving, charitable etc long before the Christian church invented itself.

So, yes those are all secular values.

I'm sure many people of other faiths and none share those values. Christians can't claim them exclusively just because a list is written down in the bible. I really don't think you have thought this through with any sort if clarity.