Will your child be starting worship this September?

[LichtenA]

Christian worship has been compulsory in our state schools since 1944. The law is widely ignored but can cause problems for parents, pupils and even teachers where it is enforced.

As part of their state education, this September, you child could be compelled to participate in Christian worship to a God they may have little or no concept of.

You can sign the petition to end compulsory worship in schools.

I signed it.
I think it is very important for society that whatever moral guidance schools deliver, it needs to be done outside a religious context.

I work in a secular school.

In our school the "worship" such as it is takes the form of just giving thanks. No deity is named, it's a simple little prayer of thanks for whatever. The children bow their heads, they say amen, it takes seconds and is only once a week.

They certainly do not say thank you to "God" but just "thank you for x, or z".

It can be whatever they want it to be.

RE on the other hand is very inclusive and needs to be as we have a variety of faiths and nine within the school.

I haven't signed the petition as my experience is that the Christian worship such as it is, is not aggressive or silly and nor are children being indoctrinated. We could all do with offering out a thank you occasionally for the great fortune we have of being born in a country where we are mostly free. That thank you can just be to the universe/whatever.

gratefulhead- you work in a secular school? Is that in the UK? Is it private?

I have never heard of a secular school in the UK- the best we can hope for is a non denominational school, otherwise all UK state schools have a legal obligation to have "active worship".

Most school aren't explicitly Christian (at secondary anyway) they just have a statement such as 'a distinctively Christian ethos'. Which pretty much means ascribing to a set of values that everyone would agree are a Good Thing. Should it be necessary to name that as Christian, no. But then you look at the list of British values we're meant to teach and you think, 'hang on, they're just values, we don't have the monopoly on them'.
But there we go. It seems some schools are going to extremes. If they're a non-denominational school they shouldn't be and I'm sure OFSTED would be interested in some of the things people have said on here - parents can contact them direct these days. However, most schools use 'communal worship' as a time to share achievements, hopefully provide some inspiration and include a small amount of time (about 30 seconds here) for reflection.
I actually take some assemblies. My last one was on Challenging Yourself, I talked about doing The Fan Dance (SAS training run) and other teachers charity challenges. Don't think anyone can object to that.

Interesting, was about to sign, but it appears to be to Tristram Hunt - who is not in government and therefore has no power to act? Why not petition the gvt?

"The law in England and Wales provides that children at all maintained schools "shall on each school day take part in an act of collective worship". Even in schools with no religious designation, the worship must be "wholly or mainly of a Christian character"."

Well we can object. I don't want my children subject to religious indoctrination.

Your children don't need to take part - you can opt out.

Oh please.

And have them stigmatised or miss other important parts of school life?

Assembly goes something like this.

Address and prayer
Singing school song
Awards for playgound "buddies"
Birthday songs
A parable from the bible
Sporting awards
A Prayer
Short video clip of a class outing
A song of religious worship " Jesus is my Superhero" or equivalent
School announcements
Welcome /leaving students
Close

Should my kids miss the whole assembly including important award/birthday celebrations or should they be pulled out and in every time there is a prayer?

Our year 2 teacher has a "table of God's works"- a nature table. How is that avoided?

The easiest thing is to keep religion out of schools.

That shouldn't be happening unless it's an RC/CofE school. And I'm surprised any school as the time to have an assembly that long. Our assemblies:
Reading or Talk (maybe linked to Christianity - but also could be absolutely anything - more usually charity)
Certificates etc
Notices
Prayer that most people ignore
Absolutely no indoctrination whatsoever!

The table of God's works is exceptionally out of order. It smacks of Creationism. Which as I stated earlier should be in RSS not Science. I went to a religious primary school (before NC so lots of opportunity for indoctrination) and we didn't have that!

And that's exactly why this is a problem. The content is down to the HT. You could have a church school that does a quick prayer or a community school that has Christianity permeating the whole school day. As parents we have no way of knowing the extent of 'indoctrination', especially when there is a change of leadership. It needs to be got rid of in all community schools.

Also as far as I know, a non-denominational school is still considered a church school but has no affiliation to any one church. A school with no church connection is called a community school, at least where I am.

Yes more accurately I should have said non - denominational.

If there is a daily act of worship I am hard pressed to identify it. The most I have seen is a once a week short prayer of thanks and no deity is named in that.

The children learn about a variety of religions in RE.

I am guessing the Christian nature of worship will be similar to other faiths and none. Be kind to one another, recognise your good fortune perhaps that you have enough food to eat and clean water etc

Our school don't do a daily act of worship though....why would they, they are not a religious school?

I don't see an issue with children and adults giving a general thanks for things like the above. I would have a problem with it if the prayer was to God/other deity.

My son is in a Catholic school, even they don't seem to do a daily act of worship.

"The most recent legal statement of the requirements for collective worship (as distinct from assembly) are contained in the School Standards and Framework Act 1998. These build on similar requirements in Section 346 of the Education Act 1996, the Education Reform Act 1988, and Section 25 of the 1944 Education Act, where the law on compulsory collective worship began. Section 70 of the 1998 Act states that, subject to the parental right of excusal or other special arrangements, “…each pupil in attendance at a community, foundation or voluntary school shall on each school day take part in an act of collective worship.”"

The collective worship aspect is ignored in most schools and a blind eye turned by OFSTED on account of the fact that few schools actually have a space where they can gather the whole school together.

Kimaroo- that's so right. Our primary head is a born again christian, he favoures employment of christian teachers, and he won't be questioned on his interpretation of his legal right to deliver christian worship in his ( non denominational state) school.

I have sat on the board of Governers for several years, even spoken to the LA about this, but they are not interested- instead they refer me to the heads right to deliver "christian worship".

I doubt our primary school is an isolated case, there must be many schools that are "upholding" the law and protection to indoctrinate.

It doesn't sound like your school is in England.

My last comment was to GratefulHead. A bit confusing!

Combust, your school sounds dreadful. Brainwashing but completely within the law. This subject is taken lightly by most parents because they only have their own children's school as an example but the potential for immersion is always there and most people don't realise it!

Kimaroo- I am glad my kids are now at secondary school- run by an athiest head!

My children are at a church school. I chose to send them there. The have daily assemblies with hymns and prayers, at least once a week this is lead by the local reverend. We have close ties with the local church and have AT LEAST three proper church services lead by the school a year, (harvest festival/Carol service/Easter service). My children are not indoctrinated but I believe the involvement of the church in their education is a good thing. It's a small village school and they have a good understanding of other religions too. Dd1 has visited mosques and other religious buildings with her class and they have always been inclusive of other religious beliefs.

Dd1, who has actually just left for secondary school, has been asking from about the age of seven to be confirmed. This year we felt she had enough understanding to make that decision for herself and as an unconfirmed Christian I decided to join her. I had still been wavering on whether or not she was old enough to have the understanding or maturity to make the decision until I attended confirmation classes with her. She made sensible, considered contributions to discussions and knew sometimes more than me!

All of my children have been Christened as babies. I am not fanatical in religion and I believe that the children should make informed decisions of their own, but if you withdraw your children from learning about religions then how can they do that? Dd1 has respect and knowledge of lots of believes. She has chosen her own set to follow.

You chose to send them there, so a good choice for you. Other parents don't get the choice. A church school might be the only school with spaces or a community school might have a religious head that has more Christian stuff going on than your church school. There's no 'choice' for non-Christians, that's the point!

I think that the best way to effect change would be to publicise the 'opt out' from assemblies. It is only when the numbers voting with their feet and doing that become noticeable that any time will be found to deal with it at a policy level and parliamentary time for passing a new law.

"Well if they have no concept of God that's great that the school will be teaching them."

Really?

My son is without religion. I don't want him to have any.

And no one is talking about withdrawing children from learning about other religions, we are talking about worshipping, praying, whatever you want to call it, when children are addressing God as if it were the truth.

Hi Kimeroo....yes definitely in England. I just think schools interpret the "rules" such as they are very widely.

Our HT is not rigours, out school is not a church based school therefore any act of "worship" is general with no nod to any religion.