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Original poster

would you have a problem with an unqualified person teaching music in your school?

208 replies

goonIcantakeit · 23/06/2014 20:05

question to both parents and teachers.

I shall be teaching classroom music next term. I'm very excited, but want to be prepared for any ill-feeling/doubts there may be about having an unqualified person teaching. It's during the teachers' PPA time.

I have a track recorder at the school in that I run an ensemble there, so I am not an unknown quantity and it is on merit.

OP posts:
Picturesinthefirelight · 23/06/2014 23:30

Yes we have Logic Pro at home too.

Sorry why would anyone want to email files to a non reading family. What dies it do that Sibelius doesn't?

SquidgyMaltLoaf · 23/06/2014 23:30

I have to admit, OP, I'd be hesitant to be enthusiastic if you've only got grade 7 and grade 5. Though I know grades are by no means the be-all and end-all (far from it). I'd wonder if you're being exploited by the school a bit as you'll be cheaper.

Picturesinthefirelight · 23/06/2014 23:31

I meant what does Musescore do?

HercShipwright · 23/06/2014 23:31

Hakluyt exactly.

Original poster
goonIcantakeit · 23/06/2014 23:32

Ok, well we are both non teachers who teach then.

As you decided to mention my instrument by its formal name I am getting more worried about being outed so I'll need to sign off now. Thanks all.

OP posts:
morethanpotatoprints · 23/06/2014 23:32

My dh isn't qualified neither apart from a graduate diploma and the memorial prize for his year. He has 100% pass rate for his students over 30 odd years.
ironically it would have been 100% merit/Distinction if it hadn't been for 2 pupils who dh was forced to enter for exam by a school, during his early career.
You can either do the job or you can't and qualifications mean jack.

Picturesinthefirelight · 23/06/2014 23:32

I've got Grade 8 & a music degree but I wouldn't call myself a music teacher.

HercShipwright · 23/06/2014 23:32

Pictures - it's Cheaper I presume, being open source. Maybe even free. This seems to be a bit of a theme...

HercShipwright · 23/06/2014 23:33

No I don't teach. I work in the city. I do however have formal musical qualifications (in multiple instruments). Unlike you.

Picturesinthefirelight · 23/06/2014 23:34

Can it cope with a symphony orchestra?

Dh is currently programming West Side Story.

Original poster
goonIcantakeit · 23/06/2014 23:37

Dammit, have to answer:

"Sorry why would anyone want to email files to a non reading family. What dies it do that Sibelius doesn't?"

You, the parent, can play it on screen whilst watching the cursor and listening. "like Sibelius" you are thinking. But it isn't, because you have just broken down about sixteen barriers by handing control of the resource to the family. You're enabling them to access the score at home.

OP posts:
HercShipwright · 23/06/2014 23:37

You were the one who wanted to play fun and games about 'your instrument' OP (your is strumming really seems to be the computer though, from what you've posted). If you didn't want it revealed you shouldn't have claimed I'd mentioned it in a previous lost when I clearly hadn't. But if you report the post where I use the proper name then I'm sure MN will delete it for you. After all I bet there are loads of people who are unqualified in any way other than a grade 5 and a grade 7 (in the same instrument. Or different ones?) who have recently been employed to teach music in a school. (Actually, the dreadful thing is - there probably are. And people with fewer qualifications than that took it wouldn't surprise me. Music education is being destroyed in this country it really is.)

BackforGood · 23/06/2014 23:38

Herc - are you aware that the vast majority of Primary School Teachers have no music qualifications, and of those tiny % that do, it's likely to be something like Grade 2, taken 20 - 30 years ago ?

It does seem like something of an overreaction.

Are you going to ensure that the school you move your dc to never use TAs to cover - oh, and of course not send them to any secondaries who use cover supervisors.

Personally I am very much against the use of people without QTS to teach children on a regular basis, but you'll find it's very, very common now and I think you'd struggle to find a convenient school that guaranteed all lessons were always taught by qualified teachers. I wish they were, but that's not life in 2014. If ever there were a case for excusing a lack of QS, then I'd say it was when the person to be used had qualifications, skills and experiences in the specific subject, which is one that many, many Primary teachers lack confidence in.

Original poster
goonIcantakeit · 23/06/2014 23:43

"Pictures - it's Cheaper I presume, being open source. Maybe even free. This seems to be a bit of a theme..."

Crikey! That's not very nice!

Pictures, yes. Pianists are critical of the voicing but version 2.0 will be out soon which I am told will improve piano parts greatly.
It would be perfect for your Dh's students.

What's particularly wonderful is that you can request features on the forum.

OP posts:
HercShipwright · 23/06/2014 23:47

Back but they do have QTS, which is at least as important in my view. If they haven't got music specialism, and can't play then that's nearly as bad to be honest (but not quite as bad). And I'd be pretty unhappy with that too. Either music education matters, or it doesn't. If it does (which is what I believe) then it should be done properly. Saying 'some (lots) of schools don't do it properly' may be a statement of fact but that doesn't make it right.

As I said. Music education is being destroyed. And not even slowly.

Picturesinthefirelight · 23/06/2014 23:50

I would prefer music to be taught by peris who are themselves qualified to degree or diploma standard.

Grade 7 just doesn't cut it.

Luggagecarousel · 23/06/2014 23:51

I am a qualified teacher, and have in the past been instructed to teach music which is madness because I am tone deaf, can't sing, dance or play and instrument.

To be honest i wouldn't have the faintest idea which of my colleagues have QTS, unless they tell me, and even then wouldn't necessarily remember.

Original poster
goonIcantakeit · 23/06/2014 23:51

I agree pictures, I would not offer private violin lessons

OP posts:
HercShipwright · 23/06/2014 23:51

Back - where I live, most of the primary school TAs now are qualified teachers. Which is in a way terribly sad, although my teacher friends who have swapped to being TAs think it's absolutely brilliant.

One of my issues with the OP's situation is that she does not have the requisite qualifications in the specialist subject, at the same time as not having QTS.

Original poster
goonIcantakeit · 23/06/2014 23:52

Have been told go to bed. Thanks all for your input x

OP posts:
Queenbeeofthevillage · 24/06/2014 00:05

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

morethanpotatoprints · 24/06/2014 00:11

Good luck OP.
I feel for you and your ilk.
You would make a huge difference in the primary schools in our area and be a huge benefit.
It is rare that a child continues lessons having only received whole class tuition on one instrument , past primary anyway. So it obviously isn't working. This is the only school based music education here and in many places.
The LA and peri's are good though and work mostly outside schools.
Only a few schools here have peri's in the school.

Fram · 24/06/2014 00:32

I would have a problem with an unqualified person teaching music to my children. I would expect either QTS in Music, or grade 8 in 3 or more instruments, plus Trinity/Guildhall degree (without QTS) if you were going to teach my children music.

Both my DC's Infant and Junior schools have qualified music teachers that teach music, peris for instruments, permanent staff for whole-class music within the curriculum.

ThisBitchIsResting · 24/06/2014 06:33

Just catching up on the thread and saw your comment Queenbeeofthevillage - I have no idea what you're talking about but I don't appreciate your comment. Care to explain? Confused

And re music technology software - it has its place, and GarageBand is great for primary kids. I have used Logic for studio work and to teach up to A-level and equivalent BTEC and college courses, but prefer GarageBand for up to KS3. It has notation within it which is useful. But it's a red herring to start debating the value of different software, especially those which are focused on traditional notation, which the OP seems very hung up on.

It's not some groovy new idea to keep music practical - it's how all music teachers teach. But the OP doesn't seem interested in actually learning how to do her new job, she seems convinced that it's something she can do despite having less qualifications than I'd expect from a peri. And a class music teacher needs to be highly skilled and qualified. By 'qualifications' I mean the combo of high instrumental and theory grades, a music degree and a postgraduate teaching qualification. Do you know any qualified music teachers OP? Because the way you're talking and assuming your lessons will be just as good, I'm assuming not.

I am seriously sad and concerned at the OP's opinion of her own abilities to teach music.

rollonthesummer · 24/06/2014 07:42

As a primary teacher (no music degree but grade 8 in 2 instruments and grade 7 theory) who enjoys teaching music, I actually think that music is a lesson that can very easily descend into chaos if you have poor classroom management skills. Not mine, clearly, mine are perfect ;)

Music is great fun, very practical and can be loud. If you have no teaching experience or music qualifications-it could go horribly wrong.