Gove. When will he go?

[stillenacht1]

Things are unravelling for our Michael. What do you think will become of him? If he goes I will hold a party

I never moan about teaching.

In fact, I pride myself on not moaning. I rant.

& it's still not about the teaching bit of being a teacher. That bit, I like.

I hate to be the depressive one, I too would also dance on his career grave when he does go.

Problem is the new curriculum comes in in sept so damage is already done

I can't see why schools should not be run as businesses. As long as the children learn why not? Some of the Birmingham schools were LA run...they were not all academies or free schools. Many LA schools fail and many children leave primary school unable to read properly...and they are not in free schools or academies. Are you all trying to tell me that all LA schools are excellent and all free schools and academies fail.
Independent schools are not LA controlled and many are privately run. many/most are successful and parents queue up to send their children to them. They don't have to teach the national curriculum or have qualified teachers and they get excellent results in the main. So LA control does not always mean excellent education .....neither does having people with a teaching qualification.

I can't see why schools should not be run as businesses.
Do you support the removal of the artificial charitable tax exemptions from schools as well?

Oh no, they are educational charities so are entitled to the tax exemption. In fact I would support tax relief on school fees because the parents who pay school fees are relieving the state of the need to educate their children and thus freeing resources for those that cannot, or choose not to pay

have you ever heard of "progressive taxation"

what about the private schools that are not charities - of which there are a fair few - are they businesslike enough for you?
And how come they cannot undercut state schools with their amazing efficiency?

I can't see why schools should not be run as businesses

But this is exactly what is causing all the problems. In all models of the market, you give consumers what they want or you fail.

So in a business model, you would have to accept that some parents will desire forms of education that others find detestable.

You would also have to accept that schools would fail and not care about the lives of the young people that are destroyed by this.

TalkinPeace, of course I've heard of progressive taxation, I just don't agree with it. Yes some private schools that are not charities are very good businesses.....in fact I know someone who has recently bought one....highly successful, excellent results, competition for places.

Don't know what you mean by "undercutting state schools"
A LO in the family attends an independent school that is a business ( different from one mentioned above) and family are delighted with it..small classes, well behaved children...all teachers have good degrees and are enthusiastic....couldn't ask for more.

I think that schools that "fail" ie do not give the children a high quality education should close...PRECISELY BECAUSE I DO CARE ABOUT THE LIVES OF THOSE CHILDREN....why should children have to attend failing schools?
Independent schools survive because they give parents what they want.

cotwatcher I can't decide whether you really believe this ill-informed twaddle you write or if you are just trying to be provocative.
An example of a private school local to us. Run by a 'charitable educational trust' was £5 million in debt with falling roles and poor exam results. It is surrounded by 3 outstanding and two good secondary schools all of which have empty places because thete are not enough children in the lcal authority at the moment. However, Mr Gove allowed it to become an academy last summer, creating another 100 school places. He wiped out its £5 million debt and gave it another £10million to build new Post- 16 facilities.
Within half a term the Headteacher left - with a huge financial pay-off to keep him quiet- because the educational trust wanted him to teach creationism to all of the children and he refused. He had also caused such upset that the teachers- mainly left over from the private school- had joined a teacher union and were going on strike. Chaos reigns at the moment with staff leaving in droves.
The school will not sign up to the structures that all of the secondary schools support vulnerable children through. It refuse places to special needs children and refuses to take any child excluded from another school.
The millions of pounds it has been given are from the education budget for vulnerable schools. No state school has its deficit budget wiped out. Why did this school?
The educational charitable trust that runs it appoints staff to manage the trust on incredibly high salaries and their aim is to make a profit from education.
This is immoral. We pay taxes to provide funding for public services. That funding should be spent on providing those services, not on lining the pockets of businessmen who run the services in as cheap and pared down away as possible to maximise their profit.
And this is the system you approve of.

Sorry , that should say another 1000 school places, not 100.

Lulu...you give an example of one school. Obviously if what you write is correct, then it is wrong. But one school does not mean that all independent schools, free schools or academies are like that. I know of poorly run LA schools. I know of bad teachers in state schools...does that mean they are all bad...of course not.
And yes, of course I believe what I have written. I taught in the state sector until recently and moved my DCs from LA schools because they were bored.

I know of poorly run LA schools. I know of bad teachers in state schools
But you have still not said where these teachers who like Gove work .....
DH sounds out in most places he goes. This week he's meeting the best part of 200 teachers. Bet none of them think Gove has a clue.

Nor do you.

I'm not going to say where I live but it is in England and I DO know of many teachers who think Michael Gove is improving educational standards and so do I. I also know of parents who think he is good because they feel he is trying to disempower teaching unions. Obvoiusly your DH and I move in different circles.

cotwatcher
Obvoiusly your DH and I move in different circles.
Yup, he goes to schools all over the UK most days of the week.
You clearly do not.

cotwatcher

"I taught in the state sector until recently"

Yet you don't know about the pay boundaries, or what the holidays are.

For someone who taught "in the state sector until recently" you seem to know very little.

oh we've had this dance before, guys.

There's quite a recurring theme with totally uninformed, self-proclaimed 'qualified teachers' giving Gove's bum an anonymous little lick on MN.

cotwatcher It is not just one school. That is how the academies system operates and its impact on local schools.

Of course there are poor LA schools. However, they are subject to intervention by the LA and by OfSTED. Academies are not.

Most academies are not inspected in their first few years. They can teach what they like. There is no legislation to hold them to account. Gove can not manage the quality assurance of them from the DFE- which is where they are accountable to. They are overwhelming the DFE. He is now talking about asking local state school headteachers to hold them accountable by pairing them with a local successful state school. FFS!

You just don't get how big a mess he has created.

There is a local company that runs several academies- it employs a staff of ex-poor quality school improvement advisors,( approx 20) most of whom have been sacked or paid off by local LAs over the last 10 years because of incompetence. They are paid a fortune to act as consultants for this academy chain or scandal.
They don't teach or work with schools on the ground. They do exactly what they lost their previous jobs doing- advising badly.
The money for all of this comes from central government - which is funding a layer of incompetent highly paid bureaucracy from money that should be spent on children.
You are blinkered and don't live in the real world.

Sorry, 'or scandal' should follow 'incompetence' on the previous line.

Thank you Lulu for at least engaging in the debate. For the others...it is easy to insult when you don't like what others are saying. Just because I disagree with you does not mean that I don't know what I am talking about. I do " get it"....I just don't agree that it a bad thing and I am entitled to my opinion ...even on MN

They don't have to teach the national curriculum or have qualified teachers and they get excellent results in the main

They select their intake. This is the most important point about independent schools, yet one that you have inexplicably failed to mention.

Were they really "sacked" for incompetence or were they made redundant because of funding changes.....I agree that if they were LA advisers they could well have been incompetent...many I knew were...but they were usually promoted by the LA .....not sacked......mind you most should have been.

Cotwatcher.. Is that right? I am an outstanding teacher, OFSTED have said so, my management have said so following my observations, my results are one of the highest and the VA is in the top three subjects in the school but Gove and his handling of education is making me want to cut down my hours drastically and try to find a way out of classroom teaching eventually. I love teaching, absolutely love it. Love being in the classroom, its the bits outside the classroom that are swinging the balance. Nice job Gove....