Free tutoring for the 11+ - or how to make the 11+ more meritocratic

[tryingreallytrying]

Thinking aloud...

I successfully tutored my own dc for the 11+ and have been approached many times to tutor other people's children (I'm a teacher, but not at this level, but frankly didn't find it difficult to get on top of requirements for the 11+).

I've always said no to doing any paid tutoring (though I've tutored a friend's child for free) - I know I could make lots of money doing this but strongly believe that grammar schools should not only be open to the children of those who can pay - much like it used to be when I went to grammar school myself.

I'd like to return to that situation - where 11+ exams are NOT tutored for. But in the absence of that, I'd like to ensure that 11+ exams are open to everyone, rich or poor, and that the poor are as well prepared for the exams as the rich.

I'm happy to offer my expertise - but can't afford to spend my time tutoring everyone who might want it for free, personally.

So how to achieve that goal? I've thought of creating materials, websites... Anyone else like to join with me in this? Got any other ideas?

Yes agree with Ventura. Ds3 is going to be doing the 11 plus - he's year 4. Because he's seen his brother get in he just assumes he will do. He should (have checked with school and he's in the 'should' category) but anything can happen. I have already told him that his year is a bit harder (more children), that anything can happen in exams and anyone can have a bad day or be ill -even the most certain of dead certs. And therefore we'll have a look around and think about a second choice over the next year.

Actually the biggest pain is the larger cohort means our second choices are limited - there are a lot of schools that may be at their PAN - which wasn't the case when ds2 sat the exam.

I suspect that those parents who most worship grammars and think their dcs' lives will be 'ruined' if they don't get in are those who didn't attend them themselves and have frankly a rather unrealistic idea of how much 'better' grammars are. Yes, they get better results - but that isn't because the teaching/facilities are all so much more amazing than the comps - I think often the reverse is true. They get better results because they have brighter pupils. If you put any of those bright pupils in a different school, they'd probably still do well - because they're bright.

DH went to a (sink) comp, I went to a top grammar. There are actually far more highly successful (in career terms) pupils from the top stream of his comp than from my top grammar class. Go figure.

I think success in life is down to a lot more than grades and a lot more than IQ. Grammar schools serve a useful niche for children of a more academic bent. They are not the key to a life of effortless gilded success as some parents appear to imagine.

@MrsRuffDiamond & cryinginthecar

"I suspect that those parents who most worship grammars and think their dcs' lives will be 'ruined' if they don't get in are those who didn't attend them themselves and have frankly a rather unrealistic idea of how much 'better' grammars are. "

I don't 'worship' grammars. I just know that my child's peer group throughout secondary, if he goes to a grammar, will be very different to the one he'll be in if he's at the local comp.

If my ds goes to a school where he's unlikely to find many children sharing his interests and hobbies, a school where homophobia and gang culture is rampant, it will impact on his quality of life and his learning.

"Yes, they get better results". Some of us are less interested in results than in quality of life at school, and our children's friendship groups.

But then maybe it's because our local comps are very rough, and because the church, grammars and private schools where I live have 'skimmed off' a very high proportion of the brightest pupils, leaving dc's like mine as very under-represented at non-selective schools.

"How difficult can it be to lighten things up? It's not about acting"

Of course it's about acting. If my son gets a grammar place I'll be delighted. If he doesn't and his other choice is a massive and very rough comprehensive with poor results I'll be anxious for him, and disappointed. I'll try to hide my feelings. This will involve acting. My son is very sensitive and astute. He will probably notice, but will pretend he doesn't. He'll put on a brave face. As will I. We'll make the best of the situation but we WILL be disappointed.

Honestly, I think some of you live in a fantasy world, where parents can make everything right for children by just insisting that it'll all be ok.

I know that going to a grammar school isn't the key to a life of effortless gilded success , thanks, trying. I don't think I said that? .

All I am saying is that when you live in an area where the local alternative to the Grammar school is a poorly performing 'sink' (for want of a better word) school, it makes parents panic. Although it is possible for children at such a school to do well, it is a damn sight more difficult.

And I also know that success is not to be measured purely in terms of academic achievement. But isn't it natural to want to keep as many options open to your children for as long as possible? Unfortunately, if they don't jump through the GCSE/A Level hoops, then there is a whole raft of choices that will not be open to them. If they are able to, and do jump through the hoops, they just have more options available to them.

Actually Mini I am starting to understand your point and see why you're so anti grammar however I do think the problem isn't the grammars but the alternatives.

Many parents are chilled like us,I guess because we can be.That is down to the alternative options all being pretty average and fine.The fact your alternative is dire isn't the fault of the grammar in question or the system but the nature of the school you are faced with.If the alternative option was fine you would be considering sending kids to both like us.

We're going for the grammar we're looking at because it truly would be the best place for our son.It's calm,quiet,much bigger campus with geeky kids like him.He gets stressed in disorganised overcrowded situations and has very few kids he identifies with in his primary.

His twin will probably be going to one of the other options(not the best but the one suited to him). There is a sciency slightly overcrowded school most of his friends will probably go to.He is very science orientated and sociable so it's a no brainer.If geeky boy doesn't get in to the grammar I'll keep them together which would be a huge plus hence my chilled 'whatever' attitude to the exam.Our dd may well to another different school.

We are lucky and have several choices.Kids differ and so do schools.I simply don't agree with throwing the baby out with the bath water because of a few rotten apples but I can see where you're coming from.I may well feel the same in your situation but then you may well feel the same as us in ours.I do sympathise actually,I went to my fair of shit schools(forces child) as did dp. If it makes you feel better dp and I both did ok(3 degrees between us)and are probably tougher because of it.

Do enter him for the exam though (he deserves the chance) and just don't discuss it,play it down and resign yourself to the alternative so you're not disappointed at the time.

Apart from altering the exams which I fully support, so they are more IQ based, maybe leaning towards Reasoning and less standard English and Maths will help so they are less "prepable" and the brightest candidates will have a better chance against the tutored.

One of the problems I see is that the state schools do not value practical skills enough. The education received at state schools needs to be about providing a workforce of the future with a percentage learning practical skills, a percentage literacy and numeracy etc and setting the system up in that way.

Not all children are meant to do A Levels or Degrees and in many cases, these children need to be enabled to play to their strengths.

Mini our local options would have been grim for every one of my DC, for differing reasons. Plenty of bright kids are sensitive and astute, and I think it might be you who inhabits a fantasy world if you really believe you can get through the rest of your parenting life without at certain critical times having to hide your feelings. There are events in a child's life - I think particularly as they get older - when it's just not fair, or positively unkind, or political suicide for a parent to show his true feelings and I'd say that piling emotion on to a child at 11+ time, 'because you can't help it', is precisely one of those moments.

I don't see why it has to be a case of pretending the alternative school is an equal option either. It's easy to explain why a DC might not have got in to a grammar (he just had an off day - and that doesn't even have to be true) without making it a blame or a tragedy thing. How often in life does one have to make the best of something which isn't ideal? Nothing wrong with saying exactly that to the child.

Sadly, primary schools are not (IMHO) pupil-centred. Hereby lies the problem. Instead of working towards goals that are in the pupils' interests, they work hard at covering their arses and in doing their utmost to keep OFSTED at bay. This means working towards curriculum targets and SATs / informal assessments carried out by the teachers.

I was once asked (as a class teacher) to identify those pupils in my class who were most on need of targeted support. Before I could respond, and automatically thinking of those who were struggling to access the curriculum or excelling and needing to be stretched, I was told that my selection HAD to be based on those who had the potential to achieve a Level 4.

I was also told to give a percentage of pupils who I was able to 'get to' a Level 4 and 5. This is school-arse covering. Atrocious. It takes a teacher with balls, experience, independence of mind and spirit to stand up and teach The Pupils - not to focus on those the school focuses their attention on for its own skewed purposes.

I'm far happier to be tutoring. I love teaching individuals at their own pitch and pace. What a relief to be unchained and to be pupil-focused.

Homophobia is pretty rampant in most grammar schools as well. DS2 hates it (was talking to him about it this weekend). I think that's pre-teen and teenage boys (or girls) tbh

Ironically Mini my dp went to the worst school in his county,never even applied for the 11+ as his parents just weren't bothered.Dp lost many of his friends to a grammar school but he still went on to two red brick unis and has various other well regarded qualifications in his field.His sister went to the same school but has done extremely well too.She has a lucrative highly skilled job for a top US company.Utterly loaded.

At the end of the day you make the best of what you've got and bright kids will do well whatever imvho.I had the worse education ever(I actually couldn't tell you how many schools I went to as I lost count and many were dire) however it never occurred to me not to do well.That come from my parents not school.

In fact I would suspect a mixed comp will have less homophobia than a single sexed school

Honestly, I think some of you live in a fantasy world, where parents can make everything right for children by just insisting that it'll all be ok

Its not that children aren't disappointed - anyone who takes an exam & doesn't get in will be disappointed - but it's learning how to deal with that disappointment that's important. Learning to keep some perspective about it. My son once did a 7 hour audition. It was round after round after round - at each round a bunch of kids were sent home. He made the final round, then was sent home in the final cut. Of course he was disappointed. He was 10, he was upset for a few days. He'll still say now that he was disappointed because he'd just begun to think he had it in the bag. He'll also say it was because his dance wasn't up to scratch, at which point, as parent, I step in and point out that a) he's not a dancer and never will be and b) he got through loads of dance rounds in the audition, so did very well considering and he should be proud of how he did - it doesn't matter that he didn't get the part - he still did very well.

He had another big audition about 6 months later and that time got the part.

So he learned that disappointment can be temporary and there's always another opportunity around the corner. And he learned the next time he might be lucky (and any exam has an element of luck - often a rather large element).

Children do have to learn to live with disappointment, and not getting something, and even messing up on the day. Now I wouldn't particularly suggest the 11 plus as a good way to practice that - BUT - if failing is something that's going to affect their self esteem for the rest of their lives then they really do need a bit more resilience - for their own good. They have a lot more potential disappointments ahead.

As parents we can help them in the run up to something like the 11 plus, and it's definitely our role to help them if they don't get a place.

Well said.

Unless the mixed comp is 70% intake second and first generation kids from cultures where homosexuality is illegal and punishable by imprisonment or death, as our nearest comp (and my dc's primary) is. :-(

Maybe I see this in a different way because my children are bright but aren't compliant (with us) AT ALL. And are very much influenced by their peer group. I'd love to think DH and my values would win out but I'm not sure that they would.

Minifingers - are there really only 2 possible schools in your area that your ds could apply for? Or could you move to an area with better schools? How did you come to be living there in the first place?

I ask because schooling matters to us so I looked at schools and that informed our choice of where to live. I can't imagine choosing to live somewhere where the choice was really crap school or grammar. We viewed 9 - yes, 9 - schools for dc1 and all but 1 of them would have been fine for dc - the one would have been fine too but I thought was too strict. And there were several other schools we didn't view! (Which are also largely fine.)

trying - then you were very, very lucky to have the flexibility to locate somewhere with an exceptionally high provision of suitable schools.

I'm not sure if you are suggesting that relocating is a genuinely viable option to tutoring for 11+? In my area the better schools are in more expensive towns. So if I had a spare £100K I could move to a slightly smaller house in a nearby town, but as I don't I am doing the best with what we do have.

Well, we rent - can't afford to buy any size house. So not huge sympathy at the 'having to buy a slightly smaller house' syndrome.

And yes, we have moved twice - once to get dcs into catchment for a primary and again for secondary (not on to the doorstep but so that dc could qualify to do the exam as previously just outside catchment). And the area we moved to was in both cases CHEAPER than where we had lived previously, so we went from being able to afford to rent to a 2 bed flat to being able to afford a 3 bed house and then to a 4 bed. So better for us in other ways than the schooling. And we weren't moving every 5 minutes - we moved when eldest was 3 and again at 10 - and are still there 4 years later. So not just trying to 'get round the rules'.

It's also actually a bit simplistic to suggest I was 'lucky' - it involved hours and hours of deliberate planning but we are far from loaded.

And it wasn't an option to tutoring for the 11+, I did both - without moving, dc would not have been able to do the 11+ for the preferred school at all. So the two choices were linked. (Though there other grammars that would have been possible from our old address too, just not ones we liked so much.)

But seriously, unless you live in a really rural location and have no public transport and/or don't drive at all, who has a choice of only two schools?? Where we live now, any child would have a choice of 4 local comps (3 good, 1 not so good), 5 selective or semi-selective schools and any numbers of faith schools depending on your faith. At our old address the choice was different but the figures very similar.

And where we used to live years ago - still a choice of about 4 comps and 3 or more grammars (some at quite a distance but still possible).

And obviously I'm not including private schools which would bump numbers up further for some.

So are you not tied to an area for work? Or family support networks? Or friends? Is it all about the schools?

And I'm not sure why you are so cross at me for owning my home. Exactly the same argument stands if we were renting. To move to another town with "better" schools would mean finding at least £400pm rent extra for the entire duration of my DCs education. We are on less than the average family income.

There are 2 secondary schools in my town. Most of the other towns around here have only a couple of schools too. It is very, very difficult to get places in schools outside your own town because they fill up with in catchment children.

tryingreallytrying

There is a forum on MN for recipes. I see no difference between sharing recipes and sharing units of practice tests. What do you think?

Then additionally you could add a section on MN with 11+ prep tips e.g. vocabulary lists, lists of novels to extend reading, quick methods for long multiplication etc., examples of types of VR questions etc.

All this is not quite as good as free online tutoring but it is more than is currently available and would be quick/free to set up.

And just to ensure you don't alienate the entire world, you could place links to tutors/websites for those who wish to pursue that route.

If the only school you're in catchment for is a sink school then surely a grammar school offers another potential option?

In fact I don't see the need to even move house. If Mini is prepared for her son to do a commute to one of the superselectives, why not a commute to a comp further afield? If she considers the nearest non grammar option so dire and the chances of a non tutored child getting a place almost impossibly small, then you'd think she'd be moved to come up with a way out of the fix. There usually is a solution, if you put your mind to it.

LoClouds, a forum such as the one you describe, already exists. Have you seen www.elevenplusexams.co.uk
It's excellent.