Free tutoring for the 11+ - or how to make the 11+ more meritocratic

[tryingreallytrying]

Thinking aloud...

I successfully tutored my own dc for the 11+ and have been approached many times to tutor other people's children (I'm a teacher, but not at this level, but frankly didn't find it difficult to get on top of requirements for the 11+).

I've always said no to doing any paid tutoring (though I've tutored a friend's child for free) - I know I could make lots of money doing this but strongly believe that grammar schools should not only be open to the children of those who can pay - much like it used to be when I went to grammar school myself.

I'd like to return to that situation - where 11+ exams are NOT tutored for. But in the absence of that, I'd like to ensure that 11+ exams are open to everyone, rich or poor, and that the poor are as well prepared for the exams as the rich.

I'm happy to offer my expertise - but can't afford to spend my time tutoring everyone who might want it for free, personally.

So how to achieve that goal? I've thought of creating materials, websites... Anyone else like to join with me in this? Got any other ideas?

Trying I think the immigrant thing is interesting,I know a family like that.

Frankly as a country I think we're incredibly lazy in what we expect our kids to do.We moan when they get homework,moan if expectations are high then moan when other more hard working countries round the world outstrip us.

The fact is kids and adults don't absorb achievement by osmosis,it takes a lot of hard work.In order for kids to write and spell well they need to get inspired but also to work hard at school and home.You hone your skills.

There are obviously extremes but to be honest if immigrant families want to work hard I don't begrudge them places.I will do with my DS what I feel is right for him?If it isn't enough and he doesn't get in then frankly I don't think he'd be happy there.

We have fine alternatives which are certainly not secondary moderns.They all have big intakes and very few want to apply for any of the 3 grammar possibilities.Many exceptionally right kids go to the many alternatives.We're lucky in that we have quite a big choice as regards secondaries.

If we are going to be specific venturabay re the ACAS question it shows an interest in the world, in current affairs, in politics... Much better than some teach to the test funny picture (ie non verbal reasoning).

Senua.. I agree but unfortunately thats the way state schools work. I teach in a grammar, I should know. Teach what is prescribed and to be tested, until the death!!!

But the places are not for the adults retro - they are for the child.

So what if the parent is focused and ambitious for the child? What about the child who is bright but doesn't have parents who throw themselves into teaching deferred gratification from early on? Is that child less deserving of a grammar school place?

And Retro - if secondary moderns (which is what comprehensives are once you skim off many of the children who are performing the most highly at 11, are) can cater well for those very bright children who don't sit or don't pass the 11+, and can offer an academically rigorous education, then what do we need grammars and the 11+ for?

Comprehensives should cater for the full range of ability as they have children of the full range of ability in them and always will do. Until this is the case we need to stop agonising about how we can identify 'the clever kids' and remove them from the comprehensive system, because IT CAN'T BE DONE, and the years and years of faffing about with the test has proven this to be the case.

How about doing away with the 11+ and allocating places based on head teachers report at primary school. Take the top (say) 10% from each year group at each school and offer them a place.
This would also help with sharp elbowed parents pushing for the best primary school places as a school with a high intake of middle class children will potentially have more competition to get one of the coveted 10% places.
Oh, and as a state school make the places only available to those in the state primary system.

Ahhh but that would mean trusting the teachers whybutwhy... And the first rule of education is never trust a teacher

Whyjust not whybut

OP, a few years ago there was a scheme being run in Bucks (not sure if it's still going), whereby a housing association funded group 11+ preparation sessions for underprivileged Y5 children. I think this is the kind of project that chimes with what you're proposing. Essentially, if you HAVE a system in place, all the ranting and raving in the world isn't going to change the fact so the important thing is to try and help those with potential who find themselves in the situation and stop them being put at a disadvantage. That's more difficult now, though, as recent changes to the 11+ test in Bucks aiming to make it "tutor-proof" has had the opposite effect entirely, with the amount of preparation being undertaken increasing exponentially. The test is incredibly challenging in terms of timing and the English/VR component seems to be disproportionately more difficult than the Maths/NVR, making it in my view very inaccessible to bright children who could benefit from a grammar school education but do not receive much educational support at home.

The elevenplusexams.co.uk provides excellent information regarding the 11+ tests that occur in the different regions.

Could you set up a weekly 11+ group, for children who teachers feel are of suitable standard for grammar school, but need that extra help to pass the test?

Obviously the ACAS type question can show an interest in politics and the world stillenacht but the first and most important thing is to test the agility of a child's mind. The more fluffy questions about the world are very secondary to that. I had all sorts of general questions in my direct grant place interview as it happens but that was after getting through to the short list. You can be a nice well rounded kid with a particular interest in trades unions who happens to get lucky on questions like that without necessarily being sharp.

Why not get in touch with local state schools who have a high percentage of fsm. You could set up a lunchtime or after school 11 plus prep group for children recommended by the yr 5 teachers. Schools receive a pupil premium so the head teacher could help with buying of resources/photocopying expenses using some of this money.

A local state school has a club that charges £3 a session, but this would probably be £3 too much for some children. Also the group has 15 children so would probably be quite ineffective at dealing with individual weaknesses and just an excuse to do past paper after past paper.

Wouldn't it be great to see a school in a deprived area giving the indies a run for their money with a high proportion of children passing the 11 plus. Even if they don't pass, the extra tuition is always beneficial to later learning.

stillenacht. Maybe your school was preparing you to be the new

Michael Edwards ,Ian Macgregor.

What a odd question to ask young Kids.

Or maybe your school thought you were going to be leaders of nationalised industries fighting the Unions in your careers....

HA HA HA.....

Why because classes vary widely.Top 10% of a class varies hugely.Also top 10% of what? Literacy,maths,both,science,speaking,ict?

On top of that many kids get overlooked in school.I have twins.1 is a mouse and never gets picked for anything,he is scoring as high,slightly lower and higher (in the 11+ bits and pieces we've done)as his G&T twin.

Said twin matured later,never speaks up but he is brighter in various things.Kids are a mish mash,you can't label,write off,give a badge for life to any kid.

I don't agree with money being a factor in the 11+ but tbh with a degree of intelligence and hard work the 11+ is open to anybody and I wouldn't begrudge anybody who got off their backside to go for it.

Really get sick and tired of posters who will happily buy places in the best primaries in order to elbow their way into the best secondaries but then begrudge kids working hard to pass the 11+.

You were applying for the GPDST school at a time when the schools had ceased to be direct grant stillenacht, so had started overwhelmingly to cater purely for the reasonably bright to very bright and comfortably off. A lot of such 'wider world' questions would have the effect of socially discriminating further at the age of 11, so in my view they're wrong. I can see that when your target audience is narrow, as your school's would have been, then those sorts of question are ok. But not as part of the first hurdle at schools trying to draw in the very bright but significantly less well off.

Of course you can't have culturally conditioned 'knowledge' questions as clearly you discriminate against kids from eg immigrant backgrounds who lack the cultural capital.

Quite like the 10% theory - it works in eg Germany - esp as it would avoid discriminating against those at poor primaries - in fact, ironically, it would mean pushy parents fighting to send their kids to sink primaries.

However, to allow for quiet kids or kids whose teachers just don't like them, or crap teachers who don't have a clue, you'd also need a solid appeals system as you have in Germany.

I'm a big believer in grammar schools, although I'm not so much in favour of fully selective system because I can see the downsides to it outweigh the benefits.

But I think if you were going to truly have a big impact on making the 11+ fair to every child, then you would have to make every primary school provide adequate coaching for it, and you would have to campaign hard to make parents support the exam preparation at home.

Until all parenting is an equal standard and all primary schools provide equal support for the 11+, we can never have equal opportunity for all children.

To answer your OP, I think the existing system would be improved if help to prepare for the 11+ was encouraged and provided through primary schools. It could either be done through the schools state provision, or through a charitable organisation that went into schools and offered support.

You have to bear in mind that there is already a lot of material available to support parents who are motivated enough to look for it and provide it for their child, much of it free or low cost. Something to change the unfairness that exists now would have to directly target the children that would benefit from that differentiation in their education, and tell them and their parents what they need to do to have a chance in the 11+.

Agree.

Do people with experience of the 11+ think that what stops parents tutoring their child at all, or effectively, is not knowing where to start? I thought about teaching the parents how to support their kids - there is only one of me and clearly I do not have the time to effectively tutor all the poor kids out there myself - do others think this would have been helpful? I know that - despite being a trained teacher - it took a little while for me to get my head round the requirements. Presumably, for those with no teaching experience esp non-native speakers, this might seem overwhelming?

Trying but if you had a variety of feeder primaries the intake could vary hugely.Also what about those whose parents wouldn't bother appealing?

I also think it would be a nightmare for teachers as parents would scrutinise and argue everything.Again what about the less pro active parents? You could also argue that the kids with more involved parents had an advantage and again which top 10%. Very few kids are the top ten % for everything?A gifted mathematician could be crap at literacy.

Kids can also go up or down.Say they had flown all the way through but got overtaken in year 5?

I think it should be open to anybody but information should be there for all provided by primaries.The most important thing imvho is equality in primary schools.Fat lot of good access to a few VR books will be if kids are in a lack lustre school making poor progress resulting in not that great literacy and numeracy skills.

I don't disagree that all primaries should be good! Clearly!

But this is not a change I can personally make.

Whereas I can try to help a wider variety of children from a wider variety of backgrounds achieve success in the 11+, if they so wish (and I don't think grammar schools are suitable for all kids or even all bright kids). Which is what I'm focusing on here.

As I recall there were over 50 questions on the paper... Including the turning right on a motorway question which everyone seems to have forgotten about here.. Blimey it was 1984!!! I don't think it culturally excludes anyone... Just watch the news (as I did then!)

Well you'd need to start in year 4. If their literacy/numeracy skills aren't good enough by the start of year 5 and they don't read enough I don't think all the advice/tutoring in the world would help.

VR is easier the more you read.

I'd focus on weaker primaries and offer help in year 4.

A question I found more difficult was ordering spoons from smallest to largest with a given list. Needless to say this was the third paper in the entrance exam after maths and English. I really liked it as a paper. Every year they would do a different type of third paper so it couldn't be tutored.