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Original poster

Free tutoring for the 11+ - or how to make the 11+ more meritocratic

433 replies

tryingreallytrying · 16/02/2014 23:08

Thinking aloud...

I successfully tutored my own dc for the 11+ and have been approached many times to tutor other people's children (I'm a teacher, but not at this level, but frankly didn't find it difficult to get on top of requirements for the 11+).

I've always said no to doing any paid tutoring (though I've tutored a friend's child for free) - I know I could make lots of money doing this but strongly believe that grammar schools should not only be open to the children of those who can pay - much like it used to be when I went to grammar school myself.

I'd like to return to that situation - where 11+ exams are NOT tutored for. But in the absence of that, I'd like to ensure that 11+ exams are open to everyone, rich or poor, and that the poor are as well prepared for the exams as the rich.

I'm happy to offer my expertise - but can't afford to spend my time tutoring everyone who might want it for free, personally.

So how to achieve that goal? I've thought of creating materials, websites... Anyone else like to join with me in this? Got any other ideas?

OP posts:

saintlyjimjams · 21/02/2014 07:35

The comp ds2 would have gone to said they ignored SATS as they found the kids levels depended on which primary they had been to (they hinted at over inflation). They test & set a month or so after starting.

saintlyjimjams · 21/02/2014 07:36

Yep - did have to teach ds2 algebra as he hasn't done it in school

Retropear · 21/02/2014 07:50

We've had to go over the old formal methods of written methods the private kids do(gridding and chunking won't cut it in test conditions),algebra,some geometry,some data handling,fractions,percentages......

There is some stuff in English too I can see.I'm lucky as mine have a good vocabulary,are good readers and spellers(thanks to me I might add).My dc are finally getting some decent literacy lessons which is a huge help. If you were in an even weaker primary(special measures)without a parent supplying all your reading material you'd have huge mountains to climb imvho.

venturabay · 21/02/2014 10:04

Retropear what percentage of kids from private schools sat the test at the superselective you intend to put your DS in for in 2013, and what percentage of the year group will it make up in September?

Also, (Mini has already asked you this; apologies if you've already replied) is your Y5 DS the first of your DC to sit the test or do you have older DC who have passed and are there?

I think you'd weep if you knew the sort of teaching my youngest DD had, but it was the only practical school .......

venturabay · 21/02/2014 10:08

Badly phrased, sorry. In other words what were the stats for last year, private applicants: places awarded. If the results in your area aren't given out before the general application to schools is made, then what happened in 2012?

Retropear · 21/02/2014 10:17

At ours you get the results before thankfully.

They will our first year.

My friend's son who is already there(extremely bright,G&T)has had a few settling issues. Single parent and zero money. Apparently the school have been great and make an effort to settle the state kids,have seen it before.She seems to think it was 80% private hence him feeling like a fish out of water.

Tbh very few people round here bother entering,there is more of a bunfight getting kids into the secondary out of catchment which has amazing facilities.

Retropear · 21/02/2014 10:18

And last!

venturabay · 21/02/2014 10:55

Thanks Retro. I really don't mean to be rude but 80% just won't be right. I'm also not convinced of your source - your friend may well be vastly inflating the numbers of private school kids in her mind because her DS is having problems. What I can say is that the figure nationally is surprisingly low.

I'm not quite sure how to put this without sounding rude, but if this next cycle of the 11+ is going to be your first and last, then it troubles me that you speak with such authority, since the effect is to rattle parents like Mini who should really be being reassured into having a go. I don't see how without being at a grammar in some capacity or other you have much more to offer than hearsay - and that's one of the major factors in putting parents off and therefore perfectly able DC missing out. This is what's so pernicious and I can at least say that you're very far from alone!

It would be interesting to know who on the thread has DC already at a grammar and who doesn't. It would be good to find that those with kids in are the reassuring ones, and those limbering up to the 11+ or whose DC didn't get in are the scaremongers. There are no mountains to climb: bright child/ decent basics/ a few practice papers/ not too much pressure or stress.

Retropear · 21/02/2014 11:11

Well you didn't specify.You asked some questions which I answered to the best of my knowledge.If you didn't want my answers you shouldn't gave asked. I wasn't volunteering said previous to your questions.

We have several friends with kids in private schools most of whom along with their friends are going for the same grammar.They are also tutored and say many being tutored are at private schools.I suspect this will increase.The private schools said friends are at are struggling.Loads are applying this year.

Your magic formula falls down re the decent basics as without them and coverage of the actual syllabus the rest crumbles.

Retropear · 21/02/2014 11:16

I still firmly believe that whatever the odds you have to be in the barrel.

I also firmly believe that many Privately schools are no better than many Outstanding state schools.

Mini's son us in an Outstanding school so has a way better chance than many,certainly my son.

We are still giving it a go.

hercules1 · 21/02/2014 11:22

With you all the way, Retropear. Dd is in special measures primary and we are having to do a massive amount of work at home to give her a chance against those from private and outstanding schools- many of whom have tuition as well. Dd started tutoring recently and is the only child not from private school. Fortunately she is doing well thanks to her own work ethic and my input along with tutoring. Any success she has will not be because of her school.

venturabay · 21/02/2014 11:50

I said decent basics were needed Retropear, so I don't quite understand your point. Decent basics and a moderate but not excessive number of practice papers.

My point is that those with experience are the ones to listen to, not those who haven't even taken the test but who yet perpetuate the myths. If you were correct in what you say most of the DC at our school would not have got in, so if you can explain that one I'd be grateful :) You can do no more actually than repeat the mantra that these schools are stuffed with privately and heavily tutored kids; the reality says different.

I can think of a great many privately schooled kids in my own area who I knew personally and who didn't get a place at the grammar in the same years that plenty of state primary kids have. This is one of the top grammars in the country too. The seriously overwhelming majority come from state primaries to the school, even though there are plenty of private schools around.

hercules1, is this your fist time too?

venturabay · 21/02/2014 11:51

Sorry: first, not fist.

hercules1 · 21/02/2014 11:56

Yes, first time for grammar but have much older ds who was able to go to good comp. However, know a wide network of people who have gone through the system.

Retropear · 21/02/2014 12:05

Erm I have listened to many who have done it thanks.

Imvho info is key for anybody,sitting back and hoping for the best isn't wise.Denying that children from stronger schools(state or otherwise) will have an advantage is foolhardy.

If you are in a weaker school you need to look at what will be covered and identify gaps.You then act accordingly.

For some tutoring to cover gaps will be needed.

venturabay · 21/02/2014 15:14

Retro anyone who's naive enough to believe that 80% of grammar school entrants are privately educated is probably naive enough to believe any old rubbish about the impossibility of normal kids with minimal prep passing the exam. And of course repeating rubbish doesn't make it true.

I'm amazed that there's such a blind spot on this:
Those who tutor and pass will want to believe that tutoring was needed.
Those who tutor and don't pass will want to believe the standard is impossibly high.
Those who do a minimum of tutoring may well believe that not tutoring caused the failure.
Those who do the minimum of tutoring and pass are in a tiny minority compared to the other three groups so their voice isn't heard, or is dismissed by people like you, even though they, unlike you, have real life experience.

Retropear · 21/02/2014 15:31

I just know if you haven't covered the curriculum the chances are you won't do well in any exam.

Call that naive I don't care but I have no intention of entering my son in for an exam he hasn't covered half of the work for when others have.

Others can do what they like.

Retropear · 21/02/2014 15:34

Oh and if he was in an Outstanding or Good school and had covered the syllabus in school I too would have the luxury of not needing to do anything,but he isn't.

saintlyjimjams · 21/02/2014 15:47

I think 3 or 4 kids in ds2's year were privately educated (super selective). The overwhelming majority come from state schools.

venturabay · 21/02/2014 15:53

Ok but on a micro level I would say that all my DC and plenty of their peers at their superselective at least did well enough to pass and get a place Retropear.

No school, whether Ofsted Outstanding or not will actually have covered the whole syllabus. The Outstanding thing is a red herring on that score.

Anyhow, as I said upthread, it's excellent that the tests are being scrutinized carefully across the country to try to avoid any particular group having an advantage. The test at our school was completely redesigned this year, with striking results.

Retropear · 21/02/2014 15:57

Perhaps they vary?

Either way it's neither here or there to me.Pretty sure Outstanding state schools are on a par.The fact remains the gulf between the two ends of the spectrum is huge and those fortunate enough to have kids in the best primary schools who cover the 11+ syllabus will have the luxury of being able to simply fling a couple of past papers at their dc.The rest of us aren't so lucky and have to fill holes before we too can merrily fling a couple of past papers at them.

Retropear · 21/02/2014 16:01

Oh bless so those of us with kids in special measures or satisfactory schools in the bottom quintile for everything are getting just as good an education for our kids as those in Outstanding schools scoring in the top quintiles.I think not.

venturabay · 21/02/2014 16:10

Ok but again on a micro level did you read the bit about my youngest DC's school? Only one qualified teacher to teach all year groups in KS2 and some very disruptive kids brought in from a nearby school having been expelled from the latter - determined not to learn nor to allow anyone else to. I don't call that lucky since it was our only viable school - I call it a pain.

I think you're ducking the point Retro, or possibly several points. Of course it's fine if you have the ability to tutor but it remains the case that saying it's vital deters others who aren't as able or as confident or as comfortably off with time. And since it's actually not necessary and may very well not affect the outcome, that creates a problem.

venturabay · 21/02/2014 16:13

Retropear it's irrelevant to the amount of syllabus covered, was my point in direct response to yours.

I'm off again now :)

Retropear · 21/02/2014 16:21

I'm guessing Sutton are worrying over nothing then as regards tutoring.Either it has an effect or not.

Either way it's neither here nor there as my son isn't going to be left to sit an exam he hasn't covered all the syllabus for when others have.

You may think it would have zero effect on the result I however will go with the common sense view,knowledge of my son(who would be completely thrown if he came across aspects he hadn't covered) and my professional judgement.

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