The Trinity-Whitgift-South London school 10+/11+ thread of 2014

[Ladymuck]

A few days early I know, but most of the entrance exams will be out of the way in a fortnight or so, and I'm sure there are a number of us who are in need of or or as we watch our (still very little) boys forget everything that they may have learned over the last couple of years. And there are many veterans of the process who will hopefully be around to reassure us that we will all come through this unscathed.

If it helps T notified 11+ non scholarship interview by phone on Tuesday followed by email confirmation today. No letter.

Has anyone been invited for 11+ sport scholarship for next week from T?

Not mine, but yes, I know someone who has his interview on Friday and sports assessment on Monday at T.

not mine either. Still eager and anxiously waiting. I am going to expload if I dont hear anything soon. I will have to call them after 1pm tomorrow. I will be at work and wont see mail till I get home. They did say if we dont receive anything by 1pm give them a call. I will call them regardless because hes down for sports and music and not heard a thing. I cant go through another sleepless night!!

To be clear, my ds isn't sitting for a co curricular scholarship, so I'm only waiting for a normal interview. I'm just impatient and need to start tidying up the garage or something...

Does anyone know offhand how many DCs there are in Year 7 and Year 9 (when 13+ kids join) in each of W, T and DC. Trying to compare sizes of the years.

I wouldn't expect there to be similar communication with the state schools. I understand that a number of state schools refuse to engage with the independent schools on principle.

Agreed there will be no communication with state primaries. I am not sure its on principle though just simply that it is a rather meaningless conversation. Our school will be sending one or two to indies a year (if that). And so Whitgift may come up, oooh, say once every 10 years or so. The Head will have heard about W but he won't know it or who it suits or what they expect (and why should he given the rarity of someone going there).

JustAnother I agree. Our HT knows absolutely nothing about getting into independent schools. He is, however, encyclopaedic on the topic of getting into London Oratory or Cardinal Vaughan, though knowledge will get you only so far. It's not really his job to know about the independent sector. As you say, it's relevant to only one or two children a year, if that.

Thats interesting. My first choice is Cardinal Vaughn 2nd choice London Orotory. He has passed the music scholorship test and have been considered for a music place. However, that is not even concrete, he may still not get in. Luck of the draw I guess.

Agreed Just. In the meanwhile Cumnor and Elmhurst will have 60-80 boys across the two schools sitting for W and T each year for full fee places. A few won't make the cut at one or other school, and heads will also discuss the academic scholars. Total surprises are rare I would say, not because the boys always perform consistently, but due to the steer from the head. The last thing the prep or senior school heads want is an impression that the outcome is entirely random, especially as the schools will be turned down by a significant number of parents when state school offers come out.

I'm slightly twitchy as ds is in the bottom half of boys at his current school. And of course that is information that will be shared with the senior schools.

DS sat 10+ at T and W. T called on my mobile yesterday afternoon and I missed it. But they called DH mobile immediately and we will have the interview next Monday. But we didn't hear anything from W yet. Nothing about the music scholarship audition from both schools either. Hope this help.

Justanother - not sure if you were asking how many are taken at T in Y7 and Y9 or what total figures are.
This years Y1 = 121, last year 117
This years Y2 = 120
Last years Y2 =110, this years Y3 = 126
Hope that helps

So in summary then, W and T will speak to independent heads in order perhaps to understand whether the exam represents the children's abilities but they won't do this for state school children because it is 'not relevant'. What if a state school child underperforms on the day? Is this irrelevant? What a shame if this is really the attitude taken.

DS is in state school and after the application, T did call the school for reference but I don't think they contact the school after the exam.

Noseynoonoo, I agree, yes, it's a pity, but I just assume that emollient phone calls from nice prep school headmasters to smooth out such things is one of the advantages you buy in the private school system - and you pay a awful lot of money for it. I'm not entirely convinced by my own argument, but I accept that when you try to jump tracks from state to private, you do have to accept certain challenges that simply aren't there if you can afford private all through.

(As you can see, I'm coming from state myself, so I suffer the same disadvantage!)

It is not that it is "not relevant", it is just a completely different relationship. It is more about getting a cohort sorted out. If one of the local state schools regularly sent 6 or more boys for one of these schools then the admissions team would probably try to make some contact, but there's no guarantee that the state school would play ball.

The other way to look at it is that state school boys will have an inherent advantage on the scholarship front, because they're being assessed on their performance on the day, not against where they fit into their prep school cohort.

How do you mean, LM - do you mean that in the case of a prep school boy who does a paper that would merit an academic scholarship from a state school, the school won't offer a scholarship if it appears that this hypothetical prep school boy has performed above his usual level?

Without doubt the single most important question on the reference is whether the fees have been paid up to date....

Before assuming a prep school conspiracy, bear in mind that fewer than half the applicants will have come from prep, and an awful lot of the state applicants are only sitting as a back up in case they don't get their preferred state school. In other words far far more state school applicants will get offers. I agree that it is harsher if a state school pupil has a bad day, but again a lot will be read into your interest in a place, which is why they want to know whether you've attended courses etc.

Oh, I don't see it as a conspiracy at all, though reading back my previous post, I can see it sounds a bit resentful - it wasn't, just came out wrong. I see it as entirely reasonable that those who have forked out considerable sums of money to give their children the best possible opportunity have partly bought a slightly easier entree in some respects (and even that's somewhat relative!) than ours. And I'm also buying into a privileged system, so I'd be a prize hypocrite if I were to complain while I'm still on the outside knocking on the door!

And, as you say, I don't think our situation is without the odd advantage.

MrsSteptoe - yes. The prep school academic scholarships are usually fairly predictable, to an extent that would indicate a unbelievable degree of consistency in boys' performances.

To be honest I don't think that it is necessarily helpful to have a boy who is only say in the 2nd or 3rd quartile of the year group normally but happened to have a single amazing or well prepared day in January and get a scholarship. Nice for the parents no doubt, but a fair bit of (social as well as academic) pressure for the boy. The prep school surprises usually come in the grammar school exams when clearly some boys have good days and some have bad.

MrsS I just assume that emollient phone calls from nice prep school headmasters to smooth out such things is one of the advantages you buy in the private school system - and you pay a awful lot of money for it.

Yes that's the way I read it. The only real advantage of a private primary (I think at least I thought) - certainly if you have a good local state primary (as we do) and can handle organising music/sport yourself outside - is that the whole primary to indie second transition is sorted for you. At least I thought that was the case. This thread (and others like it) is an eye-opener for me. We - state school parents - are shooting in the dark. We have no "guidance" from HTs as to what "level" to pitch at (should we try St Paul's or just go to Emanuel). This is the sort of added value that a prep is supposed to be good at. As well as making the choice easy, they pick up the phone and sort it out for you if all goes a little wrong. But, as I say, I then read this thread and see that there are as many MNs on it from preps as there are from state - and we all really are in the same boat - waiting and waiting in angst.

I wouldn't necessarily assume angst. Impatience, absolutely!

MrsS, I'm not managing to keep up, so my answers are all one out of sync!

LM said: I'd put the dates provisionally in my gmail diary about 4 years ago...

Yikes that borderline obsessive .... but then she did reduce me to tears at prep school once because if asked a pupil if they wanted sugar on their weetabix [hmmm]

My worst fears are over now. I received a letter from Trinity today that my son was not successful. He looked a bit sad but was pretty ok with it saying well the other non fee schools he should get in. I sincerely hope he does get in my first or second choice. Very sad day but maybe he was not destined to go to that school.