The Trinity-Whitgift-South London school 10+/11+ thread of 2014

[Ladymuck]

A few days early I know, but most of the entrance exams will be out of the way in a fortnight or so, and I'm sure there are a number of us who are in need of or or as we watch our (still very little) boys forget everything that they may have learned over the last couple of years. And there are many veterans of the process who will hopefully be around to reassure us that we will all come through this unscathed.

Some of DS2s friends had no free time.

Southern fried chicken is another exam-lunch staple IIRC.

Thanks, Mrs Leftovers (if I may). That honestly makes me feel better.

They always give very kid friendly school on entrance days. Chips don't make an appearance again until year 7 first day!

From an insider view, it does a kid no good to be heavily tutored just to get in then crash and burn when they get there. Self esteem is far more important to academic success than many other things. That and the ability to infer, deduce and problem solve. Good attention and memory skills also help.

I'm still a little sceptical about how many "over tutored" children are out there, given the formats of the tests. I think that there is a risk to an unexpected performance is say the GL VR/NVR tests (and confess to being surprised that Alleyns use them), but either a child can do ks2maths comfortably or they can't, and likewise they can either write well or not. There is a minimum standard that the schools need each child to pass, and after that selection comes down to any number of "softer" factors including number of siblings, ethnicity, personality, ability to pay, alignment with school ethos etc.

Thanks for putting my mind at rest re the prep involved.

As I said, my children are a while off yet but quite a lot of their peers are doing Kumon, Explore or learning Mandarin. It feels like an arms race!

Interesting about the 'softer' side coming through via the interview. At the moment my children wouldn't let the interviewers get a word in! What is the relevance of ethnicity in the selection process?

Trying hard not to over analyse all the variables and soft factors. Surely the schools have robust selection procedures that enable them to select the children who would thrive there? Wouldn't like my DS to scrape in and struggle miserably.

I agree, Cheeze - I'm really hoping that we can trust the process to get it right, as I really want him to get into a school where he'll thrive and have good self-esteem. As someone said further up the thread, kids don't tend to do well if they have low self-esteem.

Well I suppose that is what I'm trying to clumsily describe as the soft factors. If the child wouldn't thrive at the school then usually that would be picked up at interview, but there is a significant range of children at each of these schools, in terms of personality, interests and actually also in terms of academic ability. Yes, there are some very bright children, but also some who struggle at times, or in certain subjects.

I wish I could describe the process as robust or even fair, but there are elements which can be random. There are boys who don't pass at 10+ but then do at 11+ or 13+.

So there is a lot outside of our control in one sense. So ensuring that the children are as ready as they can be for the tests, which enable them to get to interview helps, as does having gone round the open days,taster courses etc. When interviews come round it helps not to argue over educational philosophy (Soupy and I have a RL friend who blames her son's 10+ on how she ended up in an argument with a member of the SMT). And keeping in touch with the school even if things haven't gone the way you want all can help.

Having been through this once I totally agree, Ladymuck. My dd is strong in some areas but really quite poor in others, yet got into a very selective school.

If you look at T, they "celebrate" successes in all areas so if your child has a great talent in something like sport, music or art, they will probably get in provided they meet the academic standard necessary - obviously they still have to pass the exam. I don't think it's quite the same as, say, Wilsons where they just take the brightest.

And yes, I would recommend not arguing with the interviewer :)

Me too, LadyMuck and MrsS.

Silly mistakes abound in all practices at the moment. I'm convinced DS is bright, and done enough to show it in the 11+, but we will never really know until offers are posted....

Just done a maths paper. Ds hates showing working - it really is like pulling teeth. In fairness he made a real effort to show working this time, probably across half the questions. Of course none of the ones he got wrong...

Just about to start DS off on a Dulwich English paper. I foresee another 24 mark creative writing question that's only half-length. Sigh.

On showing working, my DS did one in a paper where everything was excrutiatingly, labourishly (sp?) written out: all for one mark. It must have taken him five minutes when the paper worked out at one minute per mark.

Hard to get the balance: show working, but in a succinct manner and only when its non-trivial to do it in your head!!

My DS is doing Dulwich too, Mrs S.

Grrr.......

Another DD here. We registered for Wimbledon High but not sure if we'll go to sit the exams. I didn't like the fact that they don't do Latin in Yr7 and do science in a carousel for 2 years (Yr 7 and Yr8), i.e one term of physics, one term of biology, one term of chemistry. This seems to be the innovation of the current HMistress who is leaving (seems quite unexpectedly). So we don't know.

It seems that in SW London towards the Balham end, boys have more choices than girls. We are also sitting for JAGS. Anyone else? Then the co-ed ones. I loved Godolphin and Latymer but travel is tricky so we decided not to register in the end.

Too late now, but I wonder now if we haven't registered for enough schools or the right ones. Oh well, too late now...

DS2 has always been rubbish at writing down workings for Maths. "But I know the answer, what's the point?" aaaagh! Even a year at T hasn't quite sorted that out :)

(looking at the Girl Stuff with interest. I want T for girls :()

another dd here but went through the W/T process a few years back with a ds

Having seen all the boys' options first and then looking at the girls' during the last couple of years I've really not been that impressed ...

You can really see what you're getting for the thousands of pounds worth of fees over your child's school career with schools like KCS and Whitgift but both dd and I have been a bit 'meh' about the girls' options - she'd come back from an open day and we'd be talking about it and she'd say it was 'alright' but we've not had that 'wow' factor that you get with the best of the boys' schools

We loved SPGS and G&L (my alma mater) but the journey from our bit of south London would just be too tricky for an 11 year old and take too much of her time as she does lots of out-of-school activities which she'd want to keep going

Neither of us liked JAGS so decided not to bother and although I thought the WHS head was fab dd didn't think it was special enough to warrant the slightly tricky journey by public transport - now the head's left dd definitely won't sit that exam

We are lucky in that we have a good state back-up so we'll have to weigh up any offers she gets against that

I agree Basildonbond, it almost feels as if the boys are spoilt for choice and there isn't quite an equivalent girls school. Worth looking at some of the coeds, though it is a pity that Royal Russell isn't anywhere in the same academic league as the local single sex schools. Caterham is easy to get to if you are near a suitable train station. Reigate Grammar really need to put on a minibus shuttle from Redhill - it was ds's first choice but frankly the journey to Alleyns to easier than to Reigate by public transport.

Soupy, I don't think that you are the only person who secretly hopes that Trinity would go coed. Though I suspect that it would be close to impossible to get a place if it did...

Perhaps I should beg MrB to take girls when I'm there talking about DS1's lack of effort next week. Possibly not the right time The number of applicants they have for 6th form entry should make it clear how popular it would be.

On the whole though, I'm actually glad it's a boys school up to 6th form.

Soupy - I too would love a T for girls (my DD is currently Y5). Ladymuck - I don't want co-ed, just a T for girls
I went through 10+ 2 years ago at T and W - ended up at T if anyone has any questions.

Interesting comments about Dds. I have a DS at T ( 2 years ago for 10+) and a Dd at Royal Russell. They are actually B/G DTs, but DS was desperate to go to a boys school and it has been absolutely the right choice of school for him.
I looked at all the girls schools mentioned plus Sydenham but was actually totally smitten by Royal Russell, as was my DD. I actually first went up there when DS was invited to a creative writers workshop via his Primary and was very interested then. It is very different to T, and might not have been number one choice for him, but it is a perfect fit for Dd. she started in Sept and is absolutely flourishing. And , on balance, I think the pastoral care and the feedback and interaction with teachers actually exceeds T ( and that already has a high standard IMHO ). Interestingly, they run a single sex house system which is your form room and this provides the backbone of the pastoral care. They have very good art and DT facilities. No, it is not T for girls but it has totally exceeded my expectations and my daughter is unbelievable happy and only happy children have got high self esteem ( previously mentioned ) and then go on to get to the best exam results that they are capable of.

Just as a general point I did very little tutoring for T as I felt he should get in on his own merits ( as some other posters have alluded ) and he got in via the waiting list ( v stressful ), however, he has had a brilliant couple of years and is totally holding his own. Only a few marks separate those on the waiting list and those who get outright offers. Looking back, I do think I could have prepared him a bit better as I did underestimate the affect of nerves on the day. T do everything to make them feel comfortable though but it is a big event in their young lives.

Good luck to everyone. KCACO ( keep calm and carry on) if not there's always Pinot......,

Decided to do a quick bit of NVR first. Day before yesterday: 88%. Yesterday: 70%. Today: 48%. *head in hands
Might just leave Dulwich English paper till later.

Interesting GetMeOut - we visited RR this year for DD and to my surprise we were impressed. Also like the High School. My concern with RR was the lower academic record compared to say T. I think my DD is probably brighter than DS and wasn't sure that she would be challenged enough at RR.