Education Underclass

[OddSins]

Having exhausted the "Superclass" thread, there seems to be support for this conversation.

By way of approaching it. Do we agree there is one, who are they, why does it exist and what can we do?

Ill leave my tuppence worth to later.

We could talk about it,but this thread is about the educational underclass,which is very small. If you want to talk about inequality in education and how to rectify it that is a whole new subject and isn't really going to benefit the underclass because they are outside the norms of society. I still think that people misunderstand the term. Anyone who is reading this and interested in the subject is not part of the 'educational underclass' regardless of how their child is doing, their child's abilities, their child's aspirations and the school they go to.
If you got superb education for all you still have to deal with those who can't, or won't access it.
By all means have a debate about education, and making it fair for all, but it is a different subject.

I am not sure the underclass is very small? In many inner cities and some poor provincial towns it appears really quite large, perhaps even a majority in certain schools. Kids who are disengaged, lack motivation and any parental encouragement can be a sizeable disenfranchised group. We shouldn't even say they are poor achievers because they have never grasped the opportunity that the state has provided to demonstrate whether they can or can not flourish.

For me, the inequality issue starts at conception onwards. It cannot be easily controlled and society does not really want it to be (public policy nods only towards it).

So long as people can make their own lifestyle choices (the usual stuff around smoking, diet, alcohol, drug usage), spend their money on choosing where to live (super comps, grammar counties etc) and how to spend it (books, tutors, travel etc), chose their own partners and friends, and apply their own values and expectations on their children, inequality will exist. Thats even before you consider the privately educated children.

Society actually wants to be rewarded for these choices. Some people would call that inequality others would term it the rewards of choices.

You're probably correct Satin but the OP does say Do we agree there is one, who are they, why does it exist and what can we do? and it would appear if I understand correctly that this term has been recently invented by a think tank, and no we don't all agree on the definition or that it is a totally seperate matter and unconnected to the failures in education for many.

You need to look at why people can't and wont access it, and if one of the reasons is they know lots of people who worked really hard to access it and feel failed by it and can't see the point of trying, then that's relevent but if you insist no they're this outside society's norms unconnected to other people on the margins or in society then all you do is divide and rule everyone involved.

I have asked for more information on the education underclass having an agreed definition, and unlike the term underclass it doesn't seem to be an agreed term, just one that's being pushed by a particular group of people and is there to try and further divide imo.

Our local nursery that was trying to do the things you're talking about, and has done for nearly two decades, has lost its funding again because Ofstead said it was inadequate, again.

It’s not very popular because it serves a hard area including some hard parents and kids, and often parents are refered there as part of trying not losing their kids, the rest are poorer parents who can't travel, and immigrant parents who don't know, so it always struggles to break even and is normally run at a loss.

It always has problems getting good enough staff and volunteers, and it always has problems maintaining standards because of that. It’s a vicious circle that gets ignored.

It’s opened and closed down an awful lot over the last 17 years, it always ends up closed down as not good enough and safety problems and the reasons behind why it deteriorated again are always the same.

Each time it closes most of the kids from it don’t go somewhere else, they go nowhere, because the better nurseries don’t accept the situations of the majority of parents who use it, so it becomes pointless.

The message everyone gets is anywhere that accepts them, isn’t any good anyway.

Sorry oddsins I cross posted not seeing you were here.

That is sad Just about the local nursey.
I dont know what the answer is. There must be places loke that up and down the country.
Perhaps it is necessary for some sort of other organisation to step in such as a church or a charity.
I am guessing that it doesnt just come down to just or merely education standards but compassion and empathy standards as well.

golddigger
sadly church based charities are often crap at help where it is most needed
as they look at the parent not the child

then again a friend is applying to be a foster parent
he's had 5 kids and has 3 grandkids
but the social worker is edgy cos she's a childless, german lesbian
who remembers his regiment getting pissed on the Rhine when she was a kid
FFS
he drives me up the wall but he'll make a FAB foster parent
he makes me consider it for when mine leave home
(teenagers are the hardest to place)

I hope you friend does succeed.

I wouldnt have thought that the sw would be the only one ultimately deciding so it could all go ok.

Do you or others know if charities get involved in nurseries. Though charities are not education experts at the end of the day.