Education Underclass

[OddSins]

Having exhausted the "Superclass" thread, there seems to be support for this conversation.

By way of approaching it. Do we agree there is one, who are they, why does it exist and what can we do?

Ill leave my tuppence worth to later.

If we pretend there isn't one it is never going to get solved!

TiP you really think it's generally seen as a career option, rather than just a sometimes inevitable end result of having a good time?

You don't have to be made to not accept parents values. Some can think for themselves and relate to what they're from without wanting to continue it.

Underclass is a disgusting way to describe anyone.

Who are the better parents?

1.:2 Highly educated well paid professionals , who only ever see their Dcs for 2hrs, Monday - Friday , hired help picks their kids up from school and makes the kids their dinner. The parents talk about their kids as if there are some sort of possession or status symbol in relation to which school or what career they are going in to.

1. Two less educated parents who though not professionals,work hard and are always in the house by 6pm Monday- Friday.They spend all their available time with their Dcs .

They are aware their children will probably never go to University or be professionals. Their Daughter might want to be a Chambermaid and eventually become a Housekeeper of a Hotel, their son might love cars and dream of being a mechanic , and in time might go on to work at a Porsche/Ferrari dealership. These parents take pride in that their Dcs have got the "JOBS" that their Dcs of always wanted.

It seems on here that some, people think opportunities only relate to University and professional careers .

A quick scan confirms it's just another name for what was quite happily called lower class when I was a child.

I accept it's used as a sociological term, i still think it's a pretty vile one.

Lower class is just as bad.

Lower than who? You?

Its a vile way to describe families. It smacks of a smug holier than thou attitude. It negates this whole debate

I agree usual

I think that there is a huge misunderstanding on this thread. My son left school at 16 yrs- there is no way he is part of the 'educational underclass'.
Getting upset about terms in sociology is getting off the point.

Anyone taking part in this debate isn't part of the educational underclass. I don't see how they can be helped if people deny they exist.

pointy I did understand completely what you were trying to say, but you were making a point that was ill informed and, well, basically wrong. Some people who earn 'megabucks' in the city work 80 hour weeks and don't see their children. But so do some plumbers. Many don't. But it suits some people to pretend or claim that people who do different things to them have terrible lives. It's completely unnecessary, totally unhelpful and allows others to claim that anyone who isn't a master of the universe in the city secretly wants to be. Or should want to be. Which is also wrong.

The basic premis at the heart of this thread seems to have become that if a child doesn't go to a 'super selective' hugely expensive posh school ?preferably in London) then they have no chance of becoming one of 'the elite' and are therefore de facto members of 'the underclass' because the only people who matter are this elite and the only education that matters is one which will equip you to be part of it. I disagree with this on so many levels but it's simply not correct to claim that everyone who has one of those elite jobs has a crap life. It's just not true.

I went to a Shitty secondary modern school in the 70s.

I don't have a degree or A levels.

Am I part of the underclass?

No

Who is then?

I agree the education system is unfair.

It's unfair that those with money can buy a better education.

But that's never going to change is it?

There are plans in Scotland to give free nursery hours to two year olds, to prevent certain children starting school way behind their peers. Great for these kids, but it's taking away all parental responsibility & allowing the parents to pass the buck once again. It's not tackling any root causes.

No it is not missing the point. It has connotations of it being some sort of undesirable group. Whilst there are probably many posters who would engage in how sone children are being let down by the system, I imagine the title would put them off.

It's all about the money.

Two year olds in nursery how will that help?

By nature of my work I deal with parts of the underclass

my cleaner was the daughter of a junkie prostitute - one of seven kids, none of whose parents were ever identified
she had 4 kids all by different dads, two of whom were junkie brothers now in prison
oldest child is in same prison as dad and uncle
second child now has a kid - father unknown (extensive DNA testing would be needed)
there is no history of employment or self sufficiency
school is valueless
getting up in the morning is for wimps

it is possible that the children have intellectual capacity, but how on EARTH do you find it?

on a more optimistic note

my illiterate hole digger client realises that he was missing out and that digging holes is not an inheritance profession so has busted a gut to make sure his kids are not like he and his siblings - so they will get GCSEs and skills and thence jobs (they will never ever be clever, sweet but never academic)

Usual suspect . No you are not, I know 20 people who are incredibly successful i don't think they have many Gcse's between them, i know they don't have 1 A Level between them. They have been far more successful than the academic people i know. I am in no way saying that i do not want my Niece/ Nephew to succeed in higher education, just that for some people success does not come through education.

Sweet but not clever?

What does that mean

The educational underclass are those whose parents have no interest in education, do not talk to their child, don't socialise them, don't read to them, do not teach them age appropriate skills, or to share, empathise etc. it is not their fault, they probably had parents who never did it all with them or they may have addiction problems or chaotic home lives.
You can spot them as toddlers and if they had very small nurture groups they could be turned around, especially if they got the parents on board. It isn't that the parents don't care, they just don't have the skills.
You can go to rubbish schools, you don't have to be academic, you don't have to go to university, you can have learning difficulties- it doesn't mean that you are part of the 'educational underclass'.
Even if you are you can get out, if recognised and helped. But I can't see it helps to deny they exist because you don't happen to like the sociological term that is so well used it is in dictionaries etc.

Usual I come from the lower class. I've never had a problem with the term.

Satin I'm not now part of it because I've educated myself, when I've been able to read write and tell the time for as long as I haven't, I'll feel I'm truely educated, but I think I'm qualified to know who you call the 'educational underclass' actually are and what some of the problems are, and I'm trying to make sure my older children aren't raising my grandchildren to be let go backwards.

Half the MC kids at university are not clever.

I will never be lower than anyone.