Education Underclass

[OddSins]

Having exhausted the "Superclass" thread, there seems to be support for this conversation.

By way of approaching it. Do we agree there is one, who are they, why does it exist and what can we do?

Ill leave my tuppence worth to later.

I think Satin's post over simplifies the problem and is a bit assumptive tbh

I don't think so. I worked with a lot of schools over the summer.One school stood out, they were year 2 and they were already being failed-despite the wonderful teachers that were with them.
I know that some people will take exception with this, but we thought they were overtired, they were pale with bags under their eyes. They couldn't concentrate, they had difficulty conversing with adults, they would not share, take turns and they were constantly watching what each other were doing and interfering (and not in a nice way).
I actually find them very rewarding to work with, especially as we were out in the country doing exciting activities.
All I am saying is that you can spot them, they need small groups and they need nurturing, they need to learn to talk to adults and to share and cooperate so that they can catch up with those who get it all at home.
It is nothing to do with shyness or ability.
I think that picking them up at 2 years and having small nurture groups would do wonders to address the inequality that only gets worse as they get older.
I may not be putting it well-unfortunately I am expecting to be misunderstood.

I just figured out why I agree whole-heartedly with 50% of things WF says & loathe the other 50%.
Can't comment on thread question. The 50% of me that loathes what WF says happens to be satisfied with Status quo.

There are young children who grow up with very little stimulation from parents, or even basic parenting beyond feeding and clothing them. Children who just get shouted and screamed at, who don't know how to use any cutlery, who have never been taught to share. Their parents do need help.

word would you say that, oooh, around 93% of children are in the education underclass?

Their parents do need help.
Very true, and nurture groups could involve them-if it is done in the right way.

The underclass is very small. The majority do what I do and get the very best out of the state education system.

And what would 'waking up to' the fact that they're excluded from the proper education entail? Understanding that they're a whole lot shitter than they like to think? Bowing and scraping for bursaries? Actually, what?

I am currently working in a school where there is definitely an educational underclass, and the children in it are the ones with disaffected parents. Money and SEN are irrelevant - those on FSM or who are SEN with involved, interested caring parents are doing fine and will achieve their potential. Those who behave badly and whose parents don't support the school, will leave not only without achieving their own potential, but making it much harder for the other pupils to make the progress they deserve, and for teachers to support them.

Sorry but there's a whole group of us who aren't crap disinterested parents too!
It isn't just about dysfuntional familes, neading the caring educated to come to their aid, it's also about a system where what's an acceptable educational outcome is decided and sold by better educated people, based on systems they've decided, in which if you're doing better than the absolute bottom, then it's all ok, and it's very hard to break out of.

JustGettingOnWithIt I wonder whether that 'oh this will do' ethos is also linked to the pressure schools are under to drag children across the threshold of a C at GCSE and then leave it at that? Not that I'm in any way suggesting this is what teachers want to do, but there may well be times when they are under pressure to do it for the sake of the league tables.

Whatever the reason, it's awful and unacceptable.

Pointy yes I think it has a lot to do with it, but it was there before that too.

The sort of schools that go on about 'low hanging fruit' also select who's easiest to get across that line based on the same idea. The whole things messed up.

Because I tick a load of boxes as low education chances etc, a school can legally say that leaving with a level 6 education is an acceptable outcome for my children. It isn't.

My set of boxes are particuarly bad, but others round me who tick not great, but not as bad ones, aren't doing well out of this game either.

That's madness, JustGettingOnWithIt - a school worth their salt should never judge a family on its demographics. I had no idea that was considered acceptable, it's a tragedy. How in the world are we going to get proper social mobility in a world where people are judged on merit when you're scuppered from the world go and that's legal?

where does surestart, and interpreters if needed, come into all of this?

The other problem is we get lied to a lot about lots of really important things. Knowing what's true and what's not isn't easy if you start with a lower education, for a long time I was dependant on teachers and LEA's to tell me about education. The internet has changed that but a lot of people don't know how to use it to find out the truth of what's affecting their lives.

Pointy the point is lots of us don't feel we have access to schools worth their salt, or at least not for us, but not many are on MN.

I don't think any of the schools either I or my children have been to, had any interest in social mobility other than trying to convince us that anything I was trying to achieve for my children was a bad idea.

I know lots of people here don't value Kumon, but it's mainly because they have access to better things and don't need ways of making studying a normal part of life, but when your LEA says to parents whose kids aren’t doing well in school, that it's “unnecessary and elitist”, what hope do we have?

And how do those that accepted that, join conversations here about what elite education or professions are?

education now allowing children to access their dreams
sorry but the academic polemicists on this thread have got to think outside the box.

For many kids, being a fantastic nail technician is their dream
driving a top of the range £200,000 satellite steered tractor is their ambition

and you'd better be thankful for that because if all those kids DID try to take yours on,
your molly coddled, expensively educated little tarquins might end up mending cars and sweeping streets

the underclass has nothing to do with the lower ability children.

its all about parents whose own life skills are such that they really should not have children as they cannot give them any opportunities at all

You mean mending Formula 1 cars then Talkinpeace. Talking about that i have you heard about the fantastic U.T.C at Silverstone ?

The underclass are not posting on here, they simply have no interest.
It is nothing to do with lower ability.

its all about parents whose own life skills are such that they really should not have children as they cannot give them any opportunities at all

There's a lot of different types of people who "really should not have children" according to different other groups, but they do.

Half, maybe more, of the world should just vanish by that idea, and Pandas should definately give up.

I couldn't be given any opportunities at all, but I've made a few of my own, and am making more for my children. It would be nice if it wasn't such hard work, but if you only value those who start with plenty and use it, you wont do mankind much good in the end.

Underclass is a vile way to describe children

Justgetting
in an ideal world, those individuals would be given enough support from their early teens to make them realise that having children they cannot support is NOT a career option

and one of the things that has been changed is that early intervention will help to give those children higher aspirations than those of their parents

there are ways out of the 'underclass'
but it sadly does involve making children no longer accept the values of their parents

something that the more snobby academic posters on this thread would greatly object to if applied to their own families

LEM
Underclass relates less to children than to groups of extended families - see my point above

its a vile way to describe people.

It is a sociological term.

Justgetting
It had a purpose, but appears to have become twisted
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Underclass
on the other hand, for targeting of funding it still has practical and positive uses

It isn't the term we need to bother about, it is dealing with the problem that matters. Google 'educational underclass' and plenty comes up.