why are some women content to do all the housework?

[honeydew]

I meet lots of mums in my local area who, like me, are stay at home mums with very young children but are prepared to do absolutely everything for their partners and DH's! They slave away cooking, cleaning and washing at home with no help and at the weekends, they still don't expect
their partners to do anything! I have friends who never get a proper break from their children, even if it's only for a couple of hours. Their DH's leave them to it 24/7. Is it just me who has found that old style patriarchy is alive and well in society once a woman gives up work to raise her brood? My DH does help me with baby DS, he also puts my older daughter to bed and washes up after I've cooked each night, so we work as a team. So many women I speak to say that their DH's are not 'hands on' parents and do virtually all the chores and baby changing/feeding. Oviously, if one partner is working during the week they can't do that much, but some men don't want to contribute at all it would seem! Are they just lazy or simply 'expect' women to fulfill that role?

Who are these feminised new men? I must be watching different TV as I haven't noticed men being particularly victimised either. (Would be interested to hear examples). Have met loads of men who do similar amount of work running the household as Mr BAWC (pretty much every man I come across with children), but have never thought that any of them were particularly masculine or feminine. I think the big difference between the KW family and the vast majority of people is that Mr KW happens to do a job that makes alot of money and enables both Mr KW and Mrs KW to avoid some of the more boring domestic chores. This doesn't make either of them particularly masculine or feminine in my opinion - just wealthy. I certainly haven't heard anything to make me think that if I came across Mr BAWC and Mr KW in real life I would think that one was more masculine than the other.

Ah, but you'd certainly be able to spot Mr KW by his long flowing hair and his manly chest MadamePlatypus.

BAWC, How would you know how the majority of women feel about masculinity. You have said yourself that you do not get to meet women like me. You "don't think it is true" all this is is your thoughts, nothing more.
So you don't think that the hormones that affect the functioning of our sexuality have any affect on our typical behaviours as men and women.? Our gender is intrinsically link to our biologial sex.

I wouldn't argue that the victims of domestic violence are more usually women but we're not discussing domestic violence in this thread, domestic domination maybe. I don't believe it's typical for the man to be dominant and the woman submissive, in my experience it's the woman who's dominant typically. The example I gave was just that, one example and you're wrong to imply that I was referring to the majority of couples, just some. The purpose of the example was to show that some men may appear to be happy to help in the house but are veiling deep resentment.

Oh, and his aura. I'm not sure if Mr blackandwhitecat has one of those. Where do you think you can buy them?

"I am sure if I needed protecting, my DH would stop changing those nappies for just a few seconds and help me out.At least I hope so. LOL"

"Fairymum, the fact that women DO HAVE fantasies about these sort of men says an awful lot about the men already in their lives, lacking perhaps"

What sort of things do you think are lacking? I'm honestly intrigued. You keep speaking in inuendos. No wonder everyone is so confused

"I am saying that there are so many women who do want this. What's the point in denying it based on the fact that it doesn't happen in your family. Makes no sense."

How do you know? Have you done a sruvey on this? How many people have you asked?

Most surveys I read about what women find attractive in a man has intelligence and sense of humour at the top of the list.

Kitty "I have talked about money because people have asked about how we manage the lfe we have and money is an intrinsic part of the answer."

I really don't think anybody did!

Kittywits, you wrote:

On G. Ramsey "Yes he's v.ugly, but still he is adored, I think because women like to be protected nad looked after by very butch men like him. I'm sure YOU don't nor would BAWC, by so many women do."

"Whilst the women folk think they they are all equal. Really it is the men who do just what the women want. Now I don't think that anyone should be at the beck and call of anyone, male or female. It has happened to alot of men though. The process seems to have knocked the stuffing out of them."

"I think there are an awful lot of women out there who would really like being 'kept' I know quite a few who admit to it. "

I try to keep an open mind about how your gender-stereotypical lifestyle can work for you and Mr K. But I don't understand why it is necessary for you to then talk about how other women would love to be in your shoes or men who would want to be in your dh's shoes.

As far as I can read, nobody has really jumped in and said that your life is the perfect one for them. Yet, by making these generalisations, you are extrapolating that because others don't have your lifestyle, they are somehow sad or to be pitied or deluding themselves about their partners' happiness.

Err, it would be fairer if you could just stick to defending your lifestyle and not speaking for other men or women. Perhaps then you will perceive that the other posts would be less "rude" - to use your language Just a friendly tip.

poundstretcher

That makes no sense blueshoes. I am giving my opnions. That's what you want, otherwise there is no point to this discussion. Everyone, apart from tigermoth has felt free to critise and judge, have a few laughs etc, etc. when it comes back to them, suddenly it's not so funny. I call that hypocrisy.
So saying that I know women who want to be kept and that lots of women fancy Gordon Ramsey is somehow gender stereotyping and insulting? Come off it!!

BLUESHOES BAWC spends her entire time speaking for other women!! But that's ok. isn't it because you agree with her, yes , it's all becoming clearer now

I think you will find that very few women want to be a "kept" woman as such, but many women want to be able to stay at home while their children are little. I don't necessarily see that as being a kept woman. It can still be an equal partnership and I think that is full circle back to the OP which questions how such a partnership should work.

I'd better pack him off to Poundstretcher then Kitty and when he comes back with his aura of masculinity I won't need to fantasise about Gordon Ramsay any more will I?

Except that I'm not the one fantasising about Gordon Ramsay (who I don't fancy in the least or admire in any other way) and both Dp and I are quite happy with his masculinity

Of course I can't KNOW what the majority of women think about masculinity any more than the next person and I have prefaced everything which I don't know to be a fact with 'I think' anyway. Having said that, I do come across a lot of people at my work and I read the papers and watch the news and listen to the radio and I can't remember the last woman who used the language you do about wanting to feel protected etc outside a Mills and Boon novel. Even my female teenaged students (I teach about 100 different ones a year and gender is an important aspect of all the courses I teach so we do discuss these things) don't use this kind of language that I can remember.

For once we agree. I have always said that the partnership should be equal.

Have a good evening, ladies. I'm off to paint my attic with DP. Don't know whether painting counts as a feminine or masculine activity and don't really care

Mr. Kittywits here:

BAWC, your cut & paste posting of 8.18 is of course correct. See if you can spot the difference with your post of 7.45.

You say you couldn't or make it up, well don't make it up then!

Anybody else reading this: I'm sure you have better things to do than play spot the difference!

Ok Mr K, I'll play your Spot the Difference game since BAWC is up in her attic with a paint brush.

BAWC wrote "More confused than ever. KW and Mr KW which one of you has the long-flowing hair and the chest which receives lots of attention? If either?"

BAWC quoted Mr K "I still get attention to my chest area which I guess we all find very embarassing".

?????????????????????????

"some men may appear to be happy to help in the house but are veiling deep resentment."

Because they would prefer to unblock the drains (masculine?) than clean the toilet (feminine?) or because they would rather be playing golf? I think in most households (with or without children) people have to do work around the house when they get home from work. Thats life.

Kittywits, I am afraid I don't understand when you wrote: "Everyone, apart from tigermoth has felt free to critise and judge, have a few laughs etc, etc. when it comes back to them, suddenly it's not so funny. I call that hypocrisy."

I take heart that you previously couched your views on Mr Ramsey's masculine aura, the desire of women to be kept and the unhappiness of men being dominated as applying to some women/men you know . I hope you don't mean by saying "when it comes back to them", that you in fact mean it to apply to the mnetters who responded. Because then that is belittling others' lifestyle in comparison.

But actually, it doesn't really matter because I am beginning to get confused about why you sound upset. Glad you are still here. Please feel free to ignore my friendly tip and forge on.

Blue shoes, I'm not into critcising anybody's lifestyle nor do I mean to belittle anyone.
When I talk about experiences I have of others and their relationships and family dynamics it is to support that particular argument.
I am never saying that that is how people should be or that is the exception that proves the rule.
What we are all doing here is saying 'that is my opinion and here is evidence to back it up'.
I only speak as I am spoken to.
Well perhaps I should just placate everyone and bow out of this thread now. TBH I am getting tired of having to say the same thing over and over and over again, either because the previous posts haven't been read and the same old points are being raised or I am being misquoted or what I HAVE said has been taken and twisted.
I don't know if you have done this, it doesn't matter, but it is getting really tedious.
I like talking to tigermoth because her tone is pleasant and I think you will find that she gets pleasant answers. As I say I speak as I am spoken to. Your last post was not unpleasant and you find that my answer, I hope, mirrors this.

Mr Kittywits here:

Beatie, I did say, "Anybody else reading this: I'm sure you have better things to do than play spot the difference!" Obviously you don't.

You can't spot the difference? BAWC decided to add her own nuance. The difference in phraseology is small, the difference meaning is large. Really, I urge you to watch some TV or something, the comment was meant for BAWC.

Mr. Kittywits again:

Beatie, just read your 8.44 post. "Most surveys I read about what women find attractive in a man has intelligence and sense of humour at the top of the list." Yes, I'm sure you're right, I guess most surveys do say that. Rubbish though isn't it? I'll ask you the question, do you go for a man with good sense of humour and intelligence? Or one you want to jump into bed with?

Maybe Darwin got it all wrong. Maybe every society that has ever existed has got it all wrong.

Mr. Kittywits again (KW has gone to bed):

Hello again Floating, KW was speaking about friends of ours and this might be applicable to people you know, it's up to you to decide. To answer your question, the comments don't apply to any specific group.

Interestingly enough I was watching the new series of "the tribe" yesterday.
It occured to me how much these "primitive" tribal societies all over the world are in desperate need of some people here. The men and woman of these tribes need the help of some of the posters on this thread to help them see the error of their "primitive" ways and help them lead a more fullfilling and balanced life.
It's not natural to live like that,surely.

Hmmm, I am always very wary if the 'It is natural' argument.

It used to be considered 'natural' that all a womans goods and money became her husbamd's on marriage. He had total rights over all the children if the marriage failed.

It was 'natural' for a man to be able to demand sex from his wife, at any time, rape in marriage wasn't recognised. It was his 'natural right' you see.

Women were denied the vote because we were 'naturaly' too stupid....smaller brains you see. The same argument was used to deny and education to women.

All once 'natural' in the UK. all still 'natural' in some parts of the world.

How wedded should we be to nature if she is being interpreted by men, do you think?