why are some women content to do all the housework?

[honeydew]

I meet lots of mums in my local area who, like me, are stay at home mums with very young children but are prepared to do absolutely everything for their partners and DH's! They slave away cooking, cleaning and washing at home with no help and at the weekends, they still don't expect
their partners to do anything! I have friends who never get a proper break from their children, even if it's only for a couple of hours. Their DH's leave them to it 24/7. Is it just me who has found that old style patriarchy is alive and well in society once a woman gives up work to raise her brood? My DH does help me with baby DS, he also puts my older daughter to bed and washes up after I've cooked each night, so we work as a team. So many women I speak to say that their DH's are not 'hands on' parents and do virtually all the chores and baby changing/feeding. Oviously, if one partner is working during the week they can't do that much, but some men don't want to contribute at all it would seem! Are they just lazy or simply 'expect' women to fulfill that role?

bad typos, too early

Oh dear lord. I am guessing you are on the "woman who loves to do all the housework" side?

Well I have no major interest in how people share the work in their house as long as both partners are happy with it. But on the Gordon Ramsey thing, I think I can comment - it's a fantasy. Many women like the idea of a very rugged and masculine man, same way as many men like the fantasy of a very pliant and submissive woman, or conversely a very powerful and dominating woman. It doesn't mean you want to live with that stereotype, or that that is How Men Should Be, or any nonsense like that. It's an interesting, appealing fantasy. What bearing does it have on the discussion?

What is this "new man movement" you are talking about? I don't understand?

And I don't find Gordon Ramsey remotely attractive. He makes nice chocolates, swears a lot and has a very wrinkly forehead. Why is he macho?

Try telling mrs Ramsey that or all the women who live with very male males!!

Dp is now going for a run and I am doing the normal full english for dp and ds1.

I don't think footballers like Beckham and Ronaldo are butch and masculine. They look like girlies to me with their hugging and earings and silly haircuts.

My Dp is so sure of is masculinity that he doesn't feel they need to be anything other than the male he knows he is.

can't explain that fairymum, if you don't see it. but you have to admit that alot of women do. Yes he's v.ugly, but still he is adored, I think because women like to be protected nad looked after by very butch men like him. I'm sure YOU don't nor would BAWC, by so many women do.

No, Kittywit, I am not depressed for you and I'm sure you are happy with a system that works for you. That doesn't bother me at all although as I've said I do think your children may have some difficulties adjusting to life as it will be when they are old enough to have relationships and their own children. Some of your views particularly about men fighting back and the tide turning the other way depress me deeply as I've said.

Unlike you, I find nothing to admire in Gordon Ramsay except perhaps his cooking. If I had an 8 year old son and asked him if he would change his child's nappies I hope he would answer yes so again your son's response did not fill me with optimism. As it is, I don't have to ask my daughters if they will go to work because they have already told me they will and they regularly play at going to work. So, as with Beattie I think it may be better if your sons and my daughters don't meet when they are older. Sparks would fly and not the good sort which is not to say that your sons won't be wonderful and successful young men they will just have some rather old-fashioned views about men and women and their roles whereas my daughters already see men and women sharing both paid and domestic work and caring for them and, like me, consider this to be normal.

i would hate a bloke like gordon ramsey!
i couldnt be doing with all the effing and blinding all the time.
(and yes i do swear!)

a bloke that acts that 'manly' maybe has some doubts with his sexuality!!??!

But what is a very "male" man? You keep saying your DH is so sure of his masculinity. In what way? Does a very male man tell you he doesn't need to do the hoovering or change a nappy because his testosteron-level is just too high to cope with it? Is this about money? Does a very male man have very high earning power perhaps? And are there also feminine or non-femini women? Is a woman who likes to hoover feminin perhaps? Is she a bit masculin if she sorts out the mortgage or thinks its nice if her DH cooked made her a cooked breakfast now and again?

Why would GR be better at looking after me and protecting me? Doens't he work around the clock and is hardly ever home before midnight? I am sure if I needed protecting, my DH would stop changing those nappies for just a few seconds and help me out.At least I hope so. LOL

Sorry to say, but I think all this talk about masculinity and protection from male men is a bit superficial. Isn't it a bit "prince on the white horse"-sort of fantasy, but not very practical in RL?

You lot are so funny

I think this 'traditional role' is a load of guff tbh.

My dh has one of the most traditional of all male roles, he is in the armed forces, and was for many years a fighter pilot. He was fantasticaly good at it, won all sorts of prizes for air to air gunnery, as well as small arms shooting competitions

That pegs him as a bloky bloke, chock full of testosterone, doesn't it?

Don't you belive it. He is a totaly 'hands on' dad, does his fair share in the house, changed nappies, got up with the kids in the night, baths them every night, reads stonies.

He is one of the most gentle men I have ever met.

He is totaly happy with himeself, and doesn't need to overcompensate.. like the G ramsies of this world.

BAWC A small child has absolutely NO idea what they want to do, it changes by the second, as you well know. that fact that you childrenplay at workinh means nothing atall. My son's reaction shows one of immense maturity. To n
know at that age that you cannot know, is incredible. Alot of adults don't show such objectivity

ahh..just posted a long reply kittywits and the pc swallowed it. Have to rush now. Thanks for answering my questions on Friday. I do see what you mean about your dh seeming to undergo a personality change if he did lots of housework and childcare if he was redundant - but for me, that would be a good thing not a bad thing - however I do see how this change of work would be a shock to your family system.

I don't agree that men who do lots of house work in the evenings are emasculated and resentful for it.

I was the sole breadwinner for 2 years while my dh looked after our toddler son. I can't go into all the details ( my last message did but got swallowed up). All I can say is that no amount of housework and childcar on my husband's part was enought to stop me feeling stressed and lonely and ultimately depressed.Not denegrating housework and childcare per se, just explaining how I felt in this position.

I deeply wanted him to work again, not only because my single salary was not enough for us to live on properly, but also because I hated worked 60+hours a week. I could have been earning a huge salary and would have felt the same. I came close to having a breakdown, persuded my dh to downsize - we sold our house, bought another in a cheaper area, he returned to work, so I could work less hours and things were much better and more balanced.

My experience is not yours, of course, but you say your dh hates his job but you feel ( I think) that downsizing is admitting to failure and so pretty unthinkable. Are you totally sure this is also your dh's view? It was really important to me ( saved my sanity) that my dh was happy to downsize so I could have less stress. If he had said 'no' to downsizing even though offering to do extra housework and childcare (so I could work even more hours), I would have been deeply unhappy.

Fairymum, the fact that women DO HAVE fantasies about these sort of men says an awful lot about the men already in their lives, lacking perhaps. Women aren't needing to be physically protected most of the time, not like a few thousand years ago. It is protection in a very subtle way, feeling safe. You can all say over and over agin that you don't feel like this and your dps aren't like this therefore no one feels/acts like this. I am saying that there are so many women who do want this. What's the point in denying it based on the fact that it doesn't happen in your family. Makes no sense.

Women have fantasties about men who refuse to help with the housework? A woman feels safer with a man who never reaches for the oven-cleaner? A man who never gets up in the night to tend to a sick child in case he needs to be read to protect you? what sort of protection do you need exactly? Personally I need protection from getting to shattered. I find someone who gets up with the baby in the night a lot more useful than some man who claims he is just too male or too much of a genius at work to help out at home. No doubt you are very happy Kittywits and thats fine. I still don't think attitudes are fine, because there are clearly women, sahms and wohms, where the fact that the partner wont help is a real problem. Never mind their fantasties. They need help with the kids and housework!

You clearly have not understood fairymum. You have not understood what I am saying today and you have not understood what I have said in the past about my dp and our division of work.

It would be really helpful if you actuually talked about something I had actually said instead of twisting a sentence to suit your means. We can't talk if you are going to do this.
Btw dp has gone to make me a cuppa.

Well, I certainly don't understand your definition of masculin and male. I don't see the correlation between not doing the hoovering and being able to protect your partner and make her feel safe ? Also, is a woman who does no housework masculin too?

I am not twisting anything you have said I don't think, but I do think some of what you say is very open to interpretation because it's so vague.

I also find it interesting how everytime someone asks you a direct challening question you feel backed into a corner and feel you cannot talk like with Beatties yesterday too. I think it's because a lot of what you are saying is just fluffy stereotypes. I am not really that interested in your life as such. Like I said, I think it's great you are happy and I am not posting to try to convince you that you are not. I don't think anyone else is either. I think most posters now are talking more generally and let's face it....you have some pretty unusual views (at least in my world) about masculinity and what you seem to think are men suffering from the "new male movement".

Fairymum says,"..Surely someone who feels their masculinity threatened by doing housework must have a really fragile masculin identity? Sounds more mouse than man to me.... "
And Beatie agrees, "I wonder how many men feel repressed by what is considered the norm of masculinity and wonder if those who make the biggest song and dance about doing anything that threatens their masculinity, aren't so secure."
As does BAWC, "Absolutely agree".
And so does 1baby1bump, "...a bloke that acts that 'manly' maybe has some doubts with his sexuality!!??!

On this subject, shall we call it gender-stereotyping, you all agree. But consider this: I'm lucky enough to have long black flowing hair which certainly attracts alot of male attention even at my age. I still get attention to my chest area which I guess we all find very embarassing. I've had the captain of a well known county cricket club drunkenly complain that to him, I look TOO much like a woman, how dare he? Does this make you angry? It doesn't make me angry at all, I thought it was funny. But then I am completely comfy with my masculinity. I am of course, Mister Kittywits (Kitty is feeding the baby.)

Oh Fairymum Stop making things up. I choose not to talk to Beatie because she has insulted my sons. If she can't see that what she said was insulting then she has a problem. Maybe she DIDN'T MEAN to insult, but HER CHOICE of words and sentence stucture was insulting.
For some reason you are making things up about me and how I feel. I have answered peoples' questions now for days. I have given great details about my life, life choices and feelings. Somehow this counts as being vague in your eyes, or perhaps it is that you just haven't taken the time to read my posts properly.
Backed into a corner?? You are making things up now!!!

Mr. Kittywits, we aren't necessarily discussing YOU, but the general idea of male masculinity. If you look like a woman, then that's fine. Interesting with your wife's Gordon Ramsey-fantasties though. Perhaps it really is his cooking that attracts her after all?

Mr Kittywits writing:

I thought you probably weren't Fairymum but I thought I'd challenge the status quo using my own experiences.

KW's GR fantasies? Just don't go there