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Original poster

catchment area fiddle - are potential tenants taking the p**s?

55 replies

miranda2 · 19/02/2004 12:31

hi all. Really strung up at the moment so thought I'd post here and see what you thought. We rent out our old house, currently to three postgraduates whose contract runs out in June but who might want to extend. I was rung this morning by a guy wanting to rent the house as he was doing a course at the theological college from Sept, and wanted to get his kids into the local school. I explained I couldn't guarantee it would be free, but he could have next say on it after the current tenants. To be nice (I know from these boards how fraught getting school places is ) i said he was welcome to use the address. Fine.
I then rang my tenants to say if they got any letters from the LEA, who to pass them on to. At which point they said they had had a letter with that name on it 10 days ago, and had rung the LEA to say 'not at this address'. So clearly he'd only rung me because the LEA had got onto him about this!! I know its stressful getting places, but this takes the mickey - he only rung me when he got turned down. I suspect he doesn't want to rent it at all, just wants me to say the right things to the LEA. He kept saying he'd pay a deposit and didn't mind not gettin it back if he didn't move in, and he hadn't seen round the inside of the house but didn't seem bothered, just desparate to clinch the deal. I now suspect he doesn't actually want to rent it at all, but is prepared to lose the deposit to get the school place. I'm certainly going to now demand the deposit, which I didn't before, and make it quite clear its non-refundable! But I'm wondering how normal this is or whether it is evidence of total non-trustworthiness (in which case I don't want him as a tenant even if he is legit). I'm sympathetic to the school place thing, but is this normal stressed parent behaviour, or con man behaviour? What do you think?
Sorry, v. long- I'm stressed, I've got to talk to this guy about this soon!!

OP posts:
bossykate · 19/02/2004 12:46

sorry, miranda, but i am surprised you are prepared to condone these dirty tricks - especially in your line of work. imo, you shouldn't let him use the address, regardless of whether he pays you a deposit. i know as well as anyone how difficult it is to get school places, but i think allowing people to "win" by dirty tricks just exacerbates an already bad situation. sorry, but you did ask for opinions

Crunchie · 19/02/2004 12:50

I understand why you are sympathetic, but this man is taking the p**s. He used your address before even speaking to you about renting. To me that says it all. If he had tried to rent you house, then asked if he may use the address I might be more likely to condone the actions. You say he is going to Theological college, doesn't that mean he is training to be a priest.... surely this can't be right for a potential priest to do

Original poster
miranda2 · 19/02/2004 12:52

thats fine bk! I'm very uneasy about it, which is why I thought I'd ask what people thought. I genuinely thought he wanted to rent the house when he first rang this morning, which is why I said he could use the address in advance of anything definitely being signed as he said the LEA had said it had to be sorted by the end of this week to get a place, which seemed a bit brutal to me. Now it looks like he is just conning me and the LEA, but I wondered if I ought to be more sympathetic if it is as stressful geting places as people on here sometimes say. I think your right though, this isn't on, is it?

OP posts:
Original poster
miranda2 · 19/02/2004 12:55

sorry crunchie, posts crossed. Thanks for your input too. I'm glad my uneasiness/outrage is in line with others views - I wondered if everyone would tell me not to make a fuss, I have no idea what getting places is like etc (as ds is only 2.5). But i am more and more p*ssed off with him every time I think about it. How dare he? And how stupid must he be too - of course the council were going to write to him a t the address he gave! Anyway, I rang the theological college to check out whether he was even a legit student - which he is, so may have dumped him in it, which serves him right imho.

OP posts:
Slinky · 19/02/2004 12:55

This is why all schools should adopt our School's policy on admissions!

Before them offering a place to parents, we have provide proof that the CHILD lives at the address in the catchment area, ie by using child benefit documents.

In the past, the school has had lots of applications whereby parents were putting addresses of family members/friends who lived in the catchment area but not themselves.

If all schools had this policy, then people wouldn't be able to do what this bloke is trying to do!

pamina3 · 19/02/2004 12:56

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Blu · 19/02/2004 13:00

Sorry you've been put in this horrible situation, Miranda, but I don't think you need feel any sympathy or responsibility for him, Miranda, and tbh, I think you should be VERY wary of taking deposit money for a flat which isn't in the end rented to him, because by accepting money you could be implicated in something which might be unlawul.

Yes, it's VERY hard getting places in preferred schools, equally so for parents who genuinely live in the catchment and will be shunted out by this guy.

Bet he ISN'T going to the theo college, but is just saying that to make you think he's of good character!!!! But that may just be because I am over-cnical!

Marina · 19/02/2004 13:01

Same here Miranda - I think what he has done is dishonest and unfair both to you and to other parents who already live in the area and genuinely participate in the life of the community. We're all stressed about getting our child the right education but most of us would not trample over other parents to get it.
Hope you've kicked him into touch...

Blu · 19/02/2004 13:02

Ooops, crossed with your last message...I AM cynical, aren't I?

Original poster
miranda2 · 19/02/2004 13:15

right, I'm going to ring him and shout at him. Ask him what exactly he thinks he's playing at. I'm glad I've got him in trouble with the college too! He isn't actually training to be a priest, he's an independnt student - might effect his report if he wants one, don't you think? Ha, that'll teach him!

I wouldn't want you all thinking I'm sympathetic to fiddles and was quite happy for him to lie with a false address- the point was I originally thought he genuinely wanted to rent it for the next 2 years, so they would be living there from the summer holidays. It does seem unfair to be disadvantaged becasue you move house at the wrong time.

OP posts:
Original poster
miranda2 · 19/02/2004 13:16

blu - no more cynical than I am, ringing to check!!

OP posts:
pamina3 · 19/02/2004 15:20

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Blu · 19/02/2004 15:31

Umm, Pamina, I'm not very proud of this, but I think if she was decreasing the chances of my child getting in, or the child of someone I knew who was in the catchment,then I probably would shop her. I'd feel a bit as if i had lowered my standards by doing so, but aggrieved that she had nabbed a place while I tried to play fair. Anyway schools HATE being taken for a ride in this way.

oliveoil · 19/02/2004 15:34

Hmmmm, difficult one. If I lived in an area where schools were difficult to get into and I knew I could bend the rules, I probably would, just to get the best for my child.

marialuisa · 19/02/2004 15:35

if the school is that heavily oversubscribed Pamina, i think you should "grass". The LEA will have a very claer policy about the consequences of this sort of thing so she will know what she's doing is not on. I have a schoolfriend who is a parish priest in Kensington, the parish school is a league-table topper and along with the bribes on offer they've also come across fraudulent baptism certificates!

Marina · 19/02/2004 15:41

Oliveoil, I agree schooling is a nightmare, but how would you feel if your child lost out on a place at your ideal local school because of someone doing something dishonest like this? I know I'd be really cross. And I'd probably shop them in Pamina's position, I have to admit. It's not a pleasant dilemma.

oliveoil · 19/02/2004 15:45

Agree I would be really cross, but I know that deep down, if it meant my dd going to a crap school or a good school and I could wing it, I would.

My ex boss was loaded but wanted his children to go to the best local state, so bought a house in their catchment, rented it out to friends who then covered for him to say he lived there. Agree what someone posted earlier about using id for the child, ie child benefit, to stop this.

He could have afforded private so theortically he took a place that someone local would have been entitled to.

JanHR · 19/02/2004 15:46

We are having a house built in a good area. We are hoping to start about easterr time. As soon as we have full planning permission through I am going to put DD's name down for the local nusery and primary school. We will be building in the back garden of DP's parents and will move in with them when we have sold our house.

I would love to her her name down now but do not feel it would be right until the new house is underway.

Twinkie · 19/02/2004 15:47

God - lets hope that your child does not get turned down for a school cause their place has gone to someone lying about their address - aided and abbetted by a friendly landlord - I am disgusted that you could even think that this is an ok thing to do - please don't say you live near me!!

oliveoil · 19/02/2004 15:50

I don't think what my ex boss did is an ok thing to do. But if I lived in a shitty area and had relatives near a good school it would be very tempting to put her down as living there.

Twinkie · 19/02/2004 15:50

This is all about people trying to flout the rules after all!! Hoensty and integrity is what is missing to a huge degree in society today and a conscience - it goes back to the P&T parking!! GGGRRR

Blu · 19/02/2004 15:55

Isn't one problem that it would involve the child being coached to tell people she lived somewhere she didn't? That would be horrible. Wrong address written on to school bag, books, etc etc. And what about asking friends home?

oliveoil · 19/02/2004 15:58

I think my ex boss informed the school he had changed address after his place had been confirmed, this was about 7 years ago so rules may have tightened up since then.

I am saved a roasting by finishing work in 2 mins, no doubt I will now be burnt at the stake for admitting what most people would do

Original poster
miranda2 · 19/02/2004 16:05

All sorted. Told him I now didn't trust him, and the house was no longer available. Yucky though, i feel all tainted.

Must say I do sympathise with oliveoil. I know when we saw an agent about renting our house out, he said it was ideally placed for a family moving into the area to rent for a year, get their kids into school, then buy somewhere cheaper. The school can't jsut chuck them out and they were bona fid when they gave their address. Then again, just paying the extra for a house in the catchment area of a good school is a bit like buying your way in. I do sympathise with someone who can't afford a house in a good area and rents etc to get their kids in - otherwise its just like private isn't it, buying a good education for your kids at the expense of others? (takes cover and runs)...

OP posts:
Slinky · 19/02/2004 16:18

Pamina!

I would have no problems in reporting this other mum if I was in your situation!

This September, my DD2 will enter school. They currently have 97 applicants for the 60 Reception places available. This is why we have to "prove" our address, so that the Headteacher ensures that ALL catchment children get a place first and foremost.