Gower school islington

[BeenieBaby]

Anyone have any experience of this school? We're keen on a Montessori education, but this school seems to have a bad rep, we weren't sure why... Anyone know firsthand what it's like?

(Despite the brilliant teachers, parents and children) - it's also going still on because there are major, deep-rooted, toxic problems within the school and there is NO BOARD OF GOVERNORS or PTA to keep tabs on the self-governing 'state' of TGS. WE do not allow a single ruler to dictate the governance of the country - why on earth is it allowable for a school to exist in this way? Collective voice is rudely dismissed, squashed SOME parents, children and teachers are being/have been treated appallingly. SOME people are spoken to with a shocking lack of empathy and regard. SOME people are.. well - there are means and ways of making people feel distressed, stressed.....the power of suggestion can be a surprisingly brutal and useful tool.

Yes - why are inspecting bodies NOT questioning high staff turnover?

As for those expressions of rage or concern (in regards the shocking experiences of some) being labelled "vindictive tripe" - well, this lack empathy and puerility of response is very familiar. Also too, "life's mission to undermine the work of TGS" ... a fantastic arrogance in the above words. It's a "swatting" sort of response, a 'how dare you question' response - as I said,very familiar....

an authoritarian voice here on mumsnet to quash talk... ?
an accusation of conspiracy.....
really it's ridiculous. And desperate. And if not awful, funny.
by the way 'girlfriend' you are an alias.

It is still going frogs .... are children are still in there and we are alarmed.

Have I heard correctly that 13 out of 16 parents have written to the principle to demand a group meeting regarding the reinstatement of the much loved/respected teacher who has been 'demoted,' and that this request has been denied?

What is it that cannot be discussed behind closed doors that cannot be said in a group arena - I find this alarming.

So there you have it - a request made - and denied. Parents cannot simply vault the walls in their quest to have open group discussion or a PTA. They will, as happens time and time again, have to make the appalling decision to remove their children from the school and their much loved friends.They will have to - as most of the teachers do - vote with their feet when they realise the extent of their
disempowerment.

16 members of staff left last year - half of those were teachers - many were English - many are working locally.

'time' is also used as a strategy to stretch out, dilute and defuse collective disgust or fury at inappropriate and rash action; also to foster a mood of "what's the point - nothing changes, nothing does , it always will because because..." Deflation. And then people get on with their lives - until the next event that rocks the boat.

In my experience, parents and teachers are bamboozled; a topsy-turvy world. Rumour abounds. It's not nice, really.

Any reasonable collective action or voice (even on mumsnet) is perceived as conspiracy - this is very revealing. It is not the parents who conspire - lets be clear about that! Their children are in there! The notion of 'A Conspiracy' against a school is utterly ludicrous. Why would many voices come together in this chat-room to conspire? Speak openly, more-like. What very silly and puerile accusations.

TGS is incapable of comprehending that real concern, the desire to be heard, a need to question, a need to understand or challenge is genuine (and indeed our right as fee-paying parents, indeed as human beings!) and not an attack. A blindness, a lack of reason prevails; reason is not encouraged, reason I would say is perceived as threatening. Reason is ultimately alien, in my experience.

The popularity of TGS at entrance level is completely unremarkable in an crowded city where most schools are in demand - but look how numbers dwindle at TGS in later years. Interestingly girlfriend you site the popularity of TGS like a Badge of Honour; waiting lists for good comprehensives/other schools are generally huge in London; it's impossible to get into some schools, even if you live well within the catchment. Really, take a check on "transient' London.

"If things are that bad and the parents are that brilliant, why has nothing happened" What a question! Things do happen - they happen all the time....

In any case, parents whip their children out of school at very short notice. Teachers leave after very short periods of time at the school. Some children become very unhappy. Weird goings-on occur. People become isolated, fearful, paranoid, upset - in my experience. Things happen regularly and I believe the pile of people thoroughly pissed off has grown to the degree that there is no other option to voice concern other than here, on mumsnet!!.

Also "hell hath no fury like a hopeful TGS parent scorned" .....What are you referring to? With respect, I find this response alarming, fanatical and utterly without compassion. I could mention the few parents at TGS nursery (some years ago) who were under the impression (given) that they would have an automatic place at TGS Barnsbury and then the children were refused places; had they been given the impression that their children would be offered places, of course parents would be full of fury - for the record, a very normal human response.

Take heed TGS parents with older children at the big school are informed that younger siblings who already attend nursery cannot expect or be assured of a place at TGS Barnsbury; indeed they are advised to look for other schools, just in case.(!) It's lamentable!
Has this policy changed? Comprehensive schools in contrast and as a matter of course, accept the siblings of older children; great security for parents here and just as it should be, no? TGS parents are not afforded this level of regard or respect. Their commitment to the school is not valued. Is it clear to people entering the nursery that they will not have automatic acceptance to TGS Barnsbury? Anyone? Perhaps this should be in the public domain, on the website? Apologies if it is and I have missed it.

all of the above is VERY POOR BUSINESS PRACTICE.

Is the STAFF PAGE up on the website yet?
Is TGS understaffed?
Who has what qualifications?
Simply, Who is who?

I have been following this thread and getting more and more concerned! I have a child at Gower and I have generally been really happy with how they have flourished there. Certainly the nursery is wonderful and so much better than any others we visited. Likewise the school - compared with many we visited, it seemed wonderful. TGS is what it is due to the teachers though. They are caring and dedicated and we've always felt that they actually cared about the children. I contrast this with the staff at the top of the food chain who seem to be rather less caring.

But, I have become increasingly disillusioned by the feeling that it is just a business at the end of the day. And the staff turnover is very disrupting and odd. I know that most of the teachers in one of the rooms at the nursery left at the end of the summer term last year and they were excellent teachers but teachers who had become disillusioned. There is a feeling that as long as you are 'on board', your child will be fine, but as soon as you raise any issues, you are essentially blacklisted and not really welcome anymore. I know of several cases where this happened and parents were made to feel that their children were not clever enough or high-achieving enough for TGS. Parents were told that their children may have problems when they were just 2-year-olds who were more interested in running around than concentrating on 'tasks'. I recently heard of a case where parents withdrew both their kids at short notice after some unpleasant bullying of one of their children was not dealt with by the school in any way. I really do love the school and I want it to be the place that the Head claims it to be, but I think that this will be jeopodized if parent's views are not listened to, and if a business-model presides rather than a genuine care for the children at the school. Ultimately it is not cheap and many parents are making sacrifices to send their children there. These sacrifices are worth it if you feel you are really getting the best possible education for your money, but the lack of transparency at the school makes me begin to doubt this!

Evamariesaint, yes as I heard it through the grapevine that grows at the end of the school gates that is true. Except there was no demand to reinstate the teacher, it was simply a request for a group meeting with all the parents to discuss the situation. Keeping the teacher until the end of the year was one suggested outcome. Feeling among most parents is that removing a teacher mid-year is horribly disruptive to the children and it should only happen in situations of misconduct which is clearly not the case here since they've been told the teacher is be removed to give another trainee teacher some teaching experience. Request for a group meeting was categorically denied within the hour. (Although parents have 'kindly' been granted individual meetings). The whole thing is sickening.

goldfish76 - what you know in your bones is true.

The teachers, the parents, the children are fantastic.
The teaching is great.

The other stuff - it's just difficult to believe or grasp - to understand.

for eg. Why has a much-loved teacher been plucked from her position mid-term - before even Easter break? It's very very very odd.

Also, you will not find this information, as it happened, in the end of week news letter.

Anyway it is shocking that children should be told their teacher is being removed to give another trainee teacher an opportunity.
It's perverse.
The 2 teachers in question must feel sad and odd about this...
And the disruption for the children has evidently not been considered.

She's there until Easter, 3told. But yes, why?

mercymeee - okay thanks.

The biggest thing I feel is sadness. For all concerned;
that the principle seemingly fails to perform justly, with respect to all involved in this matter; with respect or kindness to the status and dignity of a teacher, who I believe remains within the school. It's just very disheartening.

What happened to the notion of a stable teaching environment?

I feel an over whelming sadness for all the teachers, parents and children who have struggled and suffered at the school. This thread stands as a testimony to so many unrepresented people.

It is sad when, despite all your well-intentioned efforts, things don't work-out as you had hoped.

But you are in control. If you ever find yourself in a situation where things seem pathologically toxic (whether it's a school, a relationship, etc)--GET OUT. You will be surprised at how fast you/DC readily adjusts to the healthy new "norm."

SDT85: you do seem to have a bit of a grudge against the school. I think describing TGS environment as 'pathologically toxic' is a bit extreme. It clearly has issues - and ones that I'm concerned about myself as a parent with a kid at the school - but it also has huge plus points. I think the fact that pretty much every child I know from the school is lovely, happy, bright and polite is testament to an overall more-than-decent environment. It's easy to dwell on the negatives (and as a paying customer, I'd really rather there weren't any of those anyway!) but I think on balance it offers a fantastic environment for little kids. From my experience of viewing numerous local state-schools before parting with my 2k deposit, there really was no comparison. Someone (can't remember who) on this thread said that the ratio of teachers to parents at TGS was not exceptional. I really challenge anyone to show me a state school where there are 5 qualified teachers for 26 children. It just doesn't exist at state schools.

goldfish76 - by the sounds of it, SDT85 has experience that you, with deepest respect, appear not to have had? I don't think it's fair to undermine that experience - I'm afraid I've heard it all before and since. It is really hard to believe, or to even imagine what SDT85 is speaking about when your child is as happy as yours seems to be; or perhaps you have had no concerns or doubts or worries as yet? Or perhaps you have not had to make a challenge? Or perhaps you are relatively new to TGS? Or all of the above ;) with respect.

As I said in another post, there is inconsistency of experience at TGS and this in itself is a problem. It all depends....as you get further up the school too, things become more apparent and/or worrying - not for everybody though. Some people sail through! (I think?) Alas. There are many fantastic and brilliant things about the school - a long list of stuff - this is true. BUT and it is a big but - there are also some deeply and unbelievably troubling issues that lie at its very heart. And until you know, you don't know. I actually think a lot has been said in this thread that reflects SDT85's observations. It's hard to grasp, I agree.

And since the teachers's page on the website is down, how do you actually know the number of teachers throughout the school, or their present qualifications? And why has that particular page been down for so many months?

@goldfish76

You write

"5 Qualified teachers for 26 children"

I think you must be mistaken. The fees at Gower are 12,810 pounds a year, which includes lunch. This is not enough to pay all the costs of running a school at a qualified teacher to pupil ratio of one to five.

I partly know this, because I am a governor at an Islington (state) primary school and so know the ball park cost of employing teachers and running a school and what you write does not fit that fee income.

However to be more exact let us look at Channing School, in Highgate, or to be more precise, Fairseat the Junior (ie primary) school for Channing.

There the ratio of qualified teachers to pupils, according to their prospectus is a ratio of one full time qualified teacher to about 17 pupils; that includes a specialist PE teacher and a specialist music teacher. There are a further 4 part time teachers listed.

The fees for Fairseat are 13, 995 pounds a year. Lunch is not included. Unlike Gower, Channing is not for profit (a charity) and does indeed have a Board of Governors.

And yes the facilities at Channing are rather superior to state schools, as ought to be the case as Channing has a multiple of the resource of a state school.

But that Gower would have three times the staffing level of Channing, on lower fees, and still make a profit, is not credible.

teachers are not paid enough at TGS -

If you are liked by senior management- great!! If you are not- leave before your life turns into that reminiscent of a battlefield.

Been there, done that, left!!!

We had a light-bulb moment and took our kids out of this school.

Up until this point we were content with the school a very ‘cotton wool’ sort of way.

But then we realised how dim the head teacher was – once you stripped away the educational buzz words.

We were SO happy that we made the move. Our sudden departure encouraged those not in a position to move to rapidly hire tutors.

But it wasn't just the academics - which are basically standard state school except you pay for it (btw the teachers - aussies/new zealanders on gap years - are v nice and v good -but only essentially here on holiday).

We moved to a prep and are so happy we made the move. Its not just a question of academics - its the complete package that you get at other schools. Would definitely have moved to a state school if prep school wasn't an option. Our kids also cannot believe the difference and while they are grateful for the great friends they made at the Gower school, they also see the enormous difference in being in a proper school. I think it’s really a nursery school - that continues to be a nursery up to age 11 - which isn't really appropriate.

BTW.. if its actual Montessori you are after, you definitely don't get that beyond year 2 - you just get a mainstream aussie/new zealander doing their best to make the regular teaching ' Montessor - ish'.

My kids range from v academic to average and I feel I did both a disservice by sending them to this school. When I see parents/kids on their way to the Gower school each morning – I feel like shouting out – ‘save yourselves’

nlondondad: Sorry but I am not mistaken. My child is in a class of 26 kids and there are 4 qualified teachers (there is actually another teacher but I think she floats between classes). This is a fantastic ratio. I don't know how the finances work out but that's what the kids have. Maybe the ratio of teachers to children gets bigger the older they get but my child is in the reception year. And, in all my visiting of state primaries in the area, there was not one that had anything more than 1 qualified teacher and an 'assistant' for about 30 kids. At the moment I cannot comment on the quality of the teaching or academics as I have nothing to compare it with and I am of course concerned with the sentiment on this board that the Montessori approach is not up to par. But then again, if I had my way my children would not be going to school at age 4 as all the research shows that it's counter-productive. But given they will likely have to grow up in the education system of this country, I do want them to be competitive with children from other schools.

ps...it may be that they are not paid much, I don't know. A large proportion of the teachers are from one particular country which struck me as an odd coincidence. But they are wonderful and lovely teachers for the most part so I have never thought too much about it. And is certainly just not the case that they are people on gap years from Australia/New Zealand.

Many of these overseas teachers are 'lovely'. Many come in, cause a ruckus and leave!

some are only on short visas I have heard

as i said before - imo its fine up until year 2 max. - then I would strongly advise anyone to move on.

This thread does bring back terrible memories and that's not even from a classroom point of view

goldfish76

I stand by my comment:

"But that Gower would have three times the staffing level of Channing, on lower fees, and still make a profit, is not credible."

So if I were you I would want to find out how it is done.

Is it possible that the teachers are not, in fact, qualified? which means they can be paid less?