Gower school islington

[BeenieBaby]

Anyone have any experience of this school? We're keen on a Montessori education, but this school seems to have a bad rep, we weren't sure why... Anyone know firsthand what it's like?

[Poosnu]

I'm so glad I read this thread before all the negative comments were deleted. I can't believe they have all gone.

[SDT85]

Yes, that is very telling. Although it doesn't surprise me in the least.

[LauraBridges]

Presumably people complained about them or they were libellous.

[3ToldbyanidIiot9]

Laurabridges - both I think...why would any institution dismantle conversations on mumsnet ! if there was nothing to fear or hide? The balance of opinion is not represented here; it doesn't reflect well on any party that can't support open debate about genuine concerns and experiences.

[frogs]

Laura - the deleted posts were mainly factual, by parents describing their experiences and opinions. You know, the kind of thing that MN does well, on a good day.

Yes, there was some criticism of the school and the management, but they weren't ad hominem attacks in the main, just people recounting their experiences. It just surprises me that a school would not take the long view and realise that forcing deletions of all negative opinions would in itself speak louder than any criticism from third parties.

Ultimately, with any child in any school, however wonderful, there will at some point be issues that you are not completely happy with, and the crucial thing is how the school deals with that situation. Going on a public forum to demonstrate that your approach to dealing with criticism is to silence it is surely a little counter-productive in terms of selling the school to prospective parents.

i have no axe to grind, by the way - I do know the school as it's reasonably local to us, and they've sometimes been at out-of-school events that my dc's schools have also been involved in, but have never had a child there mainly because we've been perfectly happy with the local state options.

[3ToldbyanidIiot9]

frogs - yes, I agree.

The deleted posts appeared to be genuine experiences of aggrieved parents and ex-teachers, who wanted to respond honestly to a question posted at the beginning of this discussion. You make a brilliant point about how a school deals with a concern or situation. Yes, attempting to silence debate is not a positive advert for any institution; especially a school.

[SDT85]

Any good school will foster staff development and retention. However, if you're focused primarily on the bottom line, what better way than to prune away more experienced tenured staff and bring on less experienced staff at lower wages?

[LauraBridges]

I often advise websites. If in doubt take a post down as you won't be sued for taking it down but you may be for keeping it up. That of course is not always good for free speech but that's a separate issue. In most cases it is not worth the website going into who was right or wrong to see if the alleged libel is justified or whatever it is now called under the new defamation act. I always am most interested in threads with things deleted though as they are often the most interesting.

[nlondondad]

Unless of course the whole thread gets pulled by Mumsnet. Happened to me, there was a thread in which some people who disagreed with me tried going down the route of personal attacks. When I responded by pointing out that a personal attack is not an argument, they I gather, made some kind of complaint about me, and Mumsnet responded by just taking the whole thing down.

(I can see why they did not want to be seen to "take sides")

[Montessorimum9]

All I can say to prospective parents is go and visit see for yourself, 1000's of parents and children have been through The Gower School and have been happy. You can never please everyone all of the time! While I appreciate there has been some high staff turn over, London is a transient place and I know that many of their staff have been in service for 5 years or more, even up to 10,12 years. Go and see the school, ask the questions have, you may be doing your child a disservice if you don't. Both my children are so happy and doing so well, I wouldn't change it for the world!

[3ToldbyanidIiot9]

the staff turnover at TGS is a grave concern and can only reveal an unhappiness or dissatisfaction in the workplace, whatever that may be. And I agree with SDT85.

Also, whilst London is a transient place (whatever that may mean - it is not a bus station) our schools must foster stability; this includes the long-term employment of teaching staff. TGS is a great declaimer of the stability of the home environment; why cannot TGS provide (one could argue) a stable environment for The Child? I think that the "transient nature of London" (and is London really transient?) is the weakest possible argument for the consistent loss of great teachers at TGS; remember TGS is an expensive independent school. A school of this nature should be able to provide a secure, nurturing, respectful environment for teachers in which they can flourish and take root, especially a school listed as Montessori.

A good teacher is a beacon in a child's life and good teachers ensure strong support and love in the lives of our children and their future years, at any school - they light a way both ahead, and behind, shining a beam on the valuable history of The Child, strengthening what has been achieved in The Child's life, in spirit (most important) as well as in academics etc. My child cannot look back at any (principle) teacher in her/his history, for all have gone.....in the first year at school my child had 3 different key teachers; one has became a roaming teacher (?) and two brilliant ones, left after a very short period at the school.

A teacher's work is vital to the happiness and well being of The Child. The fact that TGS loses lots of staff every year will impact upon the (deep-rooted) happiness or ease and stability of every child, no matter how fluid and adaptable adults presume children to be.

Montessorimum9 - respectfully, you cannot possibly speak for the 1000's of parents who you presume to be happy - how on earth could you know? Do you also know of the many who are unhappy, or have doubts? Are their doubts and concerns heard and would you have heard them? Some parents you speak of may be happy, are undoubtedly happy. Many appear not to have been or indeed, be? This is concerning - such inconsistency of experience.

How happy are the teachers? I ask this question for any answers? This would be very tricky to ascertain....no? Further, all institutions, however good (or bad) have room for improvement - is there really nothing at all you Montessorimum9 would change about the school? I find your standpoint incredible, with respect.

The school is still relatively young; there appears from this thread to be a body that grows in number who have serious grievances and are incredibly upset and angry....a disproportionate amount considering the young age of TGS, in my opinion.

[playfortoday]

Montessorimum - thousands of parents? Really? The primary school has only been going for 7 years hasn't it? How many children have gone through the whole school? 20 or so? At most so how can you say that there are these armies of ecstatic parents?

I'm sure there are lots of happy children and happy parents, but the fact remains that there are also lots of unhappy ones (personally I know of half a dozen who've removed their children).

The irony is that this thread would have dropped off mumsnet ages ago were it not for all the redactions. This heavy-handedness has had the opposite effect to the one intended.

As for London being transient, why do so many more teachers seem to leave this school than the norm in the capital?

[Mercymee]

Yes the teacher involved is absolutely fabulous. Very warm and caring with students and parents and has been an absolute inspiration for many of the children this year. Clearly someone with a natural calling for teaching. I hope she reads this so she knows that we're behind her!

Is it normal in other schools for staff to leave or be replaced during the school year? Way back in my school days teachers NEVER left between terms. Major changes only happened over the summer before the new school year started.

[SDT85]

Having experienced life outside TGS, I can tell you staff turnover is a non-issue. TGS has excessive staff turnover by any standard.

[frogs]

Ime it is very rare for staff to leave mid-year, and vanishingly rare to leave mid-term, other than for unavoidable life events like illness or mat leave. That's based on having had three children going through various different schools, both primary and secondary.

It's always sad when a much-loved teacher leaves, but mid-way through the year does sound very upsetting for the dc.

[SDT85]

Has anyone looked at the TGS website under the tab "our staff" lately? It looks like a cut and paste job with all the right buzzwords but no detail beyond that (ie., no actual list of teacher names and/or qualifications). There was a time when that detail was found on the website.

[3ToldbyanidIiot9]

yes - I was due to post the very same SDT85 - the staff page on TGS website has been down from NOVEMBER 2013. Possibly even before - that was the last time I remember trying to log in.

[silverandgold]

I really hope Emma reads this and takes this in the friendly spirit in which it is meant. I have 2 kids at TGS and both love it. The children are all pretty wonderful - a product of their nurturing education and environment. But the atmosphere is not conducive to open discussion. It is highly autocratic and I believe is suffocating. The staff seem tired and beaten down. It is obvious - great teachers keep leaving. The staff are not happy.

Likewise, the parents are pretty universally a great bunch with a vast amount of skills and know how between them. To involve the parents in a PTA, to draw upon their strengths to help the school flourish, these are all things I wish for.

All organisations and businesses go through periods of difficulty and learning. Let us support Emma Gowers in opening up her fantastic vision and involving those who really care about the place more. We are here to help. And all ultimately very much on the schools side.

[3ToldbyanidIiot9]

For a brilliant, dedicated Teacher to be removed/pulled/ (?) from a teaching post in the middle of a school year, a post for which The Teacher has worked incredibly hard, a teacher too, loved and respected by pupils and parents alike and by many other teachers as well (from what I understand) that has by all accounts only ever been outstanding and inspiring in work and play, who embodies a natural flair and talent for teaching and now having to abandon the children nurtured and enabled with care and tenderness, with whom too strong bonds and respect have been forged, is more than curious; saddening, shocking, soul-destroying, rage-making, desperate.

What will The Teacher's role be from after the Easter Break - or is it earlier that the post shifts Bodies?

How does this action (which has not been explained to parents) impact upon The Teacher? The Children? The Parents? What happens to the spirit of the school? Does it Break? Does it Cry? Does it Rage? Where does one look for stability, strength, kindness?

As far as I can understand, such choices, that so drastically disrupt a school year, so glibly tear up forged bonds, so idly confuse (which it will) a group of young children (7/8 years) - not to mention parents (or teachers) - and which seemingly neglects empathy, respect, decency on any level for the feelings of a human being, who has worked within the TGS school community for a some years, are astounding, unsettling, extraordinary - in my opinion.

What has happened for this to happen?

[3ToldbyanidIiot9]

many, many people have tried to urge, persuade, talk, beckon The Principle into setting up a PTA; those people also love/loved the school. They also offered help and support. There is no Board of Governors at TGS. No PTA. No likelihood of one, in my opinion. silverandgold - I'm not too sure how friendly people feel about this. Rather like the teachers you mention! This particular period of learning and difficulty is a pattern, not a glitch. I speak from years at the school (you too maybe?) Perhaps then I arrive from a different experience of it. The staff are tired and beaten down because something is wrong, not quite right, in my opinion. The school could flourish as you hope, but that would mean a great shift in the ethos of the school and it's approach to open debate, involvement of parents and willingness to listen.

[Mercymee]

Well said Silverandgold. Gower parents have been calling for better communication and more involvement for years. (calling quietly amongst themselves) And Gower parents really are a talented, intelligent and dynamic bunch of people who could offer so much support and do so much good for the success of the school and the ideals it stands for - if we were allowed. We already have shown great support (financially). Without our investment the school simply would not exist. And we've already shown great trust in placing our children's education in the hands of a new (untested) school. You only need to look around at other similarly sized, owner operated, schools in London to see that it is possible to retain good staff year on year, have a parent's council and generally foster a pleasant community of children, teachers, staff and parents. Parents at TGS are an asset to be utilised for the good of the school, not a financial resource to be tapped.

[Northernlurker]

Interesting thread. Having seen the number of deletions etc I wouldn't send my child to this school. Very foolish reaction.

[3ToldbyanidIiot9]

mercymee and silverandgold - I completely agree.
Some people have been calling for more involvement out loud too!

A PTA needs to be actively thought through collective voice. Single or coupled voices get squashed, dismissed or they just vanish into into the walls; I once utterly believed that a PTA was possible and I was as enthusiastic as you silverandgold. I believed that it could happen, in exactly the ways you put forward here - brilliant parents to help, support, nurture, give ideas and foster a great school community. Its ridiculous that a school so brimful of talent is unable to fulfil this desire, this need ! and to get it sorted. Everyone seems to want one - or many people at least, for it to have to happen.