Think Carefully Before Opting for Private Education

[PRMum2012]

i am a mum of two (23 months and 3 in august)I am self-employed, part time and married to a lovely architect. We have a great life and two happy kids.

On paper I would say I have not done too badly with my life and my aim is to work full time as soon as possible now my kids are a bit older. If the work was available I would happily work full time now.

Despite setting up my own business I can't help feeling like a failure that I can't afford for my own children, what my parents did for me.... It annoys me that I put so much importance on it ... I am now passionate about finding a decent local primary school for my children so they don't feel the same pressure i do now, when they are older and looking for schools for their kids ....but i'll be honest ......assuming i can afford it i would try and do it from 11 if i can....!!!!...

Hopefully by then, my kids will have an input too and they will be forming their own opinions on the issue.

Depending on mortgage and family support I can't see that it's possible for anyone with two kids earning under £80,000 - £1000,000 + (as a family income) to afford private education anymore, my advice is unless you have a thriving business or two, work as a dr, lawyer or banker.... Forget it.

It's really hard to watch my younger sibling do it for her kids, they are paying for private prep while we cant afford it.... But it really upsets me I feel like this... why can't I just be happy for them and quietly satisfied that I don't need to pay on top of my taxes for my kids education.

For my own primary education i went privately, tried the local school for secondary education but was bullied so moved back to the private system.... I had a mix of private and state during secondary - my second private school was amazing but the second state school I attended for 6th form (my choice) was great too so why is this all having such an impact on what I want for my own kids.

My DH is much more laid back, he went privately all the way through but doesn't place as much value on it as I do/did....I wish I felt the same way but all I feel now is pressure to earn more money so I can pay for them both from 11.

Actually around here its the grammar schools that are FULL of middle class people claiming they dont believe in private schools (anymore - having used them for their academic standards during the junior stage and furiously tutoring their children to pass the 11+!)

There is considerably more diversity in my children's private schools then the grammar's in South Bucks

It wasn't rare in Brixton. Part of reason why I left. The school was good and tried hard but there were a significant proportion of children suffering real difficulties, primarily I think because they were loving in difficult circs, lots of social work involvement etc.

Its hard to do well at school at any level if you are tired and hungry and no one gives much of a crap about whether you have any clean clothes to wear.

Nobody says it doesn't happen.

But I, for one, am deeply tired of the representation of state schools as places where mouth breathing knuckle draggers throw chairs and where any child who is remotely interested in education is torn limb from limb before you can say "book"

"erm as a parent with two kids at private school I would have to say that they are DEFINITELY insulated within a wall of privilege and it would be hideously disengenous to pretend otherwise. All the parents are well off also, very occasionally you get an only child on a scholarship whose parents aren't obviously well off (although of course they may be hugely rich who knows?)"
I couldn't agree more (those on bursaries aside) anyone who can afford even the cheapest of school fees; £10 000 PA, is in another financially privileged league to families living in genuine poverty. They may be living in "terraced houses" but at least they are living in houses rather than appalling B and B's.

Spero as someone who used to not only live but also work with deprived families not a million miles away from where you live (probably a bit more deprived) IME African and Jamaican families in particular the former do attend church all day on both Saturday and Sunday so maybe its a legitimate excuse.

Seeker I have made it clear I can only talk about what I know which is two primary schools in comparatively deprived areas.

I am sure it is a very different story in Richmond or Guildford or wherever.

Equally I am very tired of all those with their heads in the sand who don't want to here about other people's problems because it doesn't make up part of their world. Lucky them.

I don't think most private school parents believe all state schools are full of chair throwers. Our children play sport with state school pupils sometimes. They meet them at university open days and study with them at university.

However some comprehensives can be pretty bad and it can be worth paying (or paying by houseprice which is arguably more underhand and morally worse) fees to ensure children are in classrooms with other children who are keen to learn and do not have a difficult home life.

Thankyou for reassurance happy gardening! I used to live two doors down from one of the churches on Acre Lane and saw a fair few parents, so I did hope they weren't just giving me the brush off...

"do not have a difficult home life."
Dont delude yourself Xenia plenty in independent schools have very difficult home lives substance addiction, domestic violence serious and life threatening illnesses death of a parent/sibling and exceedingly acrimonious divorce are not just confined to the underclass its just better hidden.
I also not convinced that keenness to learn is found in every pupil at every independent school IME reluctant scholars exist in both sectors. I cant comment on chair throwers but I don't accept every independent class room in the UK is full of rows of perfectly behaved, engaged, highly motivated children.

I was comparing children in some of the examples above who are in homes without food, without blankets, with parents on drugs and the like - the type of lives which do not exist for most children in private or even most state schools. Families where even getting a child up to get to school on time and finding clean clothes is hard.

There are many fewer of those in private school settings.

I have had 3 teenagers already and of course in their schools there will be some children messing around in lessons but fewer particularly in the academic schools and indeed the state schools in leafy suburbs.

I know acre lane well are they still double parking all over the place? The lovely classy Rye Lane was my stamping ground. We're a million miles away now but I'm told its "sort after and very trendy" when I was briefly back there a few years ago it still looked like the same old dump to me.

Plenty of parents in the independent sector on drugs and of course many are abusing alcohol its just comes out of a wine glass rather than a bottle wrapped in a brown paper bag.
Xenia I accept children at independent schools are financially in a much more privileged position in comparison with many in the state sector but money does insulate from significant other problems at home including very sadly systematic abuse.

I have no idea what it's like in Richmond or Guildford....

Spero - but look at the positive side. At least your DD is being educated in a diverse environment, far away from snobby entitled people.

MTS- don't you ever get bored with pretending to miss the point? Wouldn't it be more fun to join in with sensible discussions about interesting things?

Rye lane - is that Peckham? Apparently Peckham is tres sought after now...

There was a vicious double red route outside my flat on Acre Lane so never noticed parking! Did get my car broken into twice in one week however when parked by Town Hall...

MTS - I do actually think it is an advantage for my daughter to know she is privileged by virtue of my earnings and she should be grateful for it. I think will she grow up a far better educated person by virtue of those experiences.

Seeker - I am sure at some point boredom must set in for MTS but fair play to her, several pages and she's not flagging yet. Got to admire the energy.

DD's last 'real' day at comprehensive today before exams start - am v tempted to start a thread In Praise of the Comprehensive, but I know I won't be able to post on it all evening!

"Rye lane - is that Peckham? Peckham is tres sought after now..."
Yes its Peckham I keep hearing its tres sought after now when we moved there a couple of hundred years ago (from Richmond waves to seeker) people laughed, black cabs wouldn't take you there and in some streets you had to pick up your mail from the sorting office because the postman wouldn't go there. Damilola Taylor tragically died yards away from where we lived 0ver 33% of the residence were thought to have no/low levels of literacy and numeracy. Middle classes avoid it like the plague. Houses needless to say were dirt cheap.

I have been a governor at an outstanding primary in Brixton. Perhaps Spero's (but it doessn't sound like it). I can confidentally say that chair throwing was not a regular occurence. Of course, there were disruptive children, but they were were managed. They get extra attention. And so on. If the school cannot manage them, the child eventually gets expelled. The safety of the child is paramount. If it happened regularly, Spero, and safety was not being assured, the school was clearly at fault.

I don't deny these things go on, but agree with Seeker that it is wrong to say that these things are typical.

My DC now go to another Lambeth primary where again there is much deprivation (and very few white faces). Same story. There is low level disruption, but nothing that constitutes a danger. If that were to happen, I have no doubt that it would not be repeated (by the same child).

I am guessing you were Sudbourne or Stockwell road - not mine, catchment areas for both appeared to be a few metres! So I went half a mile down the road into a completely different world....

I don't think it is fair to blame the school, they did the best they could with the cohort they had. You can't just exclude every disruptive child. Where do they all go?

I wonder if OP is still following this thread and the various turns it has taking. Will soon reach the 1000 mark.

OP care to post something else as there is a knack to starting a thread that gets so many engaged.

Spero - Why do you keep bringing up race?

You live in an economically deprived area.with the usual accompanying social problems. You can't afford to move because the house prices there have been driven up by MC homeowners. The people with power and influence send their kids elsewhere so you feel ignored, neglected and powerless.

If that was all you are saying then I would be 100% in agreement. But I dislike your subliminal racist comments. Like the one about your DD being the only white kid in a class of 29 black kids and how she has no friends apart from a couple of other white kids.

MTS - I 'keep bringing up race' because I am talking about the evil of segregation.

I witnessed it on a racial/class level in Brixton. I witness it now on a class level and lesser extent racial level in Bristol.

Now I do have the choice - thanks cancer and Aviva! - to move to another house and send my daughter to a private school if I want too. So I do not feel powerless. I feel slightly sick with myself to even contemplate it as I think it makes me a hypocrite. I am a Governor of my present school, I could be one of the people with clout, but show me a sniff of money and I am potentially out of here.

I am intrigued how I am racist subliminally or at all to point out a fact. In my daughter's school she was the only white child in a class of 30. I think that is very wrong on so many levels because it is segregation pure and simple.

I am not a racist, but I can't stop you believing that if you so wish. A pity, because I think your eagerness to read what you want to believe has stopped you engaging in what I think is a very useful and interesting discussion.

And the black families would not invite me to their houses nor accept my invitations to mine. This again is a sad fact of my daugther's life in over two years in Brixton.

Why I am a racist for stating that fact? We were divided by more than race, I accept that. And I repeat, this is the inevitable consequence of segregation - division, suspcion, bigotry.

I am still waiting for you to tell me why I am so wrong to be concerned that segregation exists in our country.

MTS its so easy to smug and condescending and take the moral high ground and criticise others when your living in leafy suburbia cushioned by a good income that provides you with options (even if it is to eat battery farmed cheap chicken).

Living in deprived areas like Brixton and sending your DC's to what are often bloody awful schools because you have no choice gives you a different perspective on things.
Spero might be racist (closet or otherwise) and I abhor racism but she is also a mother who like all of wants above everything else the best for her DC and sometimes our situations force us often to go against our beliefs and deeply held principles to achieve the "best" for our children. This may not be acceptable to you or even me but as mothers we should at the very least show some understanding. .
Ask yourself what would you do/how would you feel in her position?