Think Carefully Before Opting for Private Education

[PRMum2012]

i am a mum of two (23 months and 3 in august)I am self-employed, part time and married to a lovely architect. We have a great life and two happy kids.

On paper I would say I have not done too badly with my life and my aim is to work full time as soon as possible now my kids are a bit older. If the work was available I would happily work full time now.

Despite setting up my own business I can't help feeling like a failure that I can't afford for my own children, what my parents did for me.... It annoys me that I put so much importance on it ... I am now passionate about finding a decent local primary school for my children so they don't feel the same pressure i do now, when they are older and looking for schools for their kids ....but i'll be honest ......assuming i can afford it i would try and do it from 11 if i can....!!!!...

Hopefully by then, my kids will have an input too and they will be forming their own opinions on the issue.

Depending on mortgage and family support I can't see that it's possible for anyone with two kids earning under £80,000 - £1000,000 + (as a family income) to afford private education anymore, my advice is unless you have a thriving business or two, work as a dr, lawyer or banker.... Forget it.

It's really hard to watch my younger sibling do it for her kids, they are paying for private prep while we cant afford it.... But it really upsets me I feel like this... why can't I just be happy for them and quietly satisfied that I don't need to pay on top of my taxes for my kids education.

For my own primary education i went privately, tried the local school for secondary education but was bullied so moved back to the private system.... I had a mix of private and state during secondary - my second private school was amazing but the second state school I attended for 6th form (my choice) was great too so why is this all having such an impact on what I want for my own kids.

My DH is much more laid back, he went privately all the way through but doesn't place as much value on it as I do/did....I wish I felt the same way but all I feel now is pressure to earn more money so I can pay for them both from 11.

Spero - it was YOU that made the point that the black families spent a lot of their non school time with their church community

Am I the only one who thinks that this is another White people being marginalised in their own country sub thread masquerading as a thread about how diversity is an ideal to strive for?

Yep, you're the only one who thinks that.

O yes, I agree it is race and class, I made that point earlier.

It was MTS who argued that they didn't want to mix with me due to religion. I guess that can be added to race and class issue. I assume the parents just didn't feel comfortable with me because I was clearly a different race, class, didn't share their religion and so forth.

But this is precisely what I mean about the dangers of segregation. If there was more mixing, there would presumably be less suspicion and we could concentrate on what unites us instead of what divides us.

But sadly some posters such as MTS would rather dismiss any arguments I make as I am apparently some kind of white supremacist who want all the black children out of my daughter's school?

I am at an utter loss how she can think that, but I think it is her problem, not mine.

I do think Spero's comments have been taken out of context.

And I agree about segregation causing exactly that sort of mistrust and division, regardless of which race is in the majority.

Diversity is clearly an ideal to strive for, if you want your child to grow up with choices, understanding and lack of bigoted thinking.

If you dont promote diversity then you end up with what we have know - a country with a diverse ethinic and religious propulation governed by a bunch of Old Etonians who all went to school together.

If you think that is a desirable state of affairs, then I think you are bonkers.

People who talk about private school diversity always amuse me. All those different coloured NT privileged well off children. So charming!

Well it is true - there are more non-white children at ds's private school than at any of the local state schools.

There are more non-NT children at his private school than at the local 'good' (sought after) state schools.

There is broadly the same socio-economic mix as at the local 'good' (sought after) schools.

Spero - I see that you chose to ignore my point about how I was merely repeating YOUR post about how the other families are always busy with their church activities.

Seeker You can count on one hand the number of non-white childrens in DS's state primary. He starts at a selective indie school in Sept and you will be able to count more non-white children in his class. This would not be true had he gone to the oversubscribed catchment secondary.

As I said, iseeondust- lots of NT privileged children in all different colours!

dd3's state primary is 100% white british.

The state secondary has 1600 pupils with no black faces to be seen - a few indian kids.

dd1's private secondary has black, indian, chinese, french, korean and spanish kids.

The cultural mix argument is wrong. Economic mix is much more varied at state of course but as we shouldn't judge people by the amount of money that they have I don't see why that's particularly relevant :-)

Seeker Privileged in the sense their parents have prioritised education but most are not privileged in a mass of material goods way. You have the grammar system to contend with in Kent, we have years of one party dominating the city council and languishing at the bottom of any education table you care to look at. Oversubscribed round here just means good for here not great by any standard.

Both my children's state schools utterly reflect the extensive and sometimes bizarre ethnic mix of (a) the area (b) their own families. HTH.

There are also a fair number of kids with asylum seeker families and/or free school meals, which I tend to feel is a greater indication of economic diversity than Beaten Up Old Cars, personally.

Our secondary has mostly white faces, but then again a fair amount are from travelling families... But I'm sure someone will be along to tell me there are lots of traveller children at their local private school. Or explain why it's a good thing there aren't...

And can I once again point out there may be kids who look like white Brits but aren't. Speaking as a mixed-race woman who passes extraordinarily well for someone who isn't.

Lol at Beaten Up Old Cars. At dd1's private school that's the height of reverse snobbery. The poshest families have the shittest cars. Sadly I ONLY have a shit car whereas the very Posh families also have very Posh cars hidden away in one of their outbuildings.

MTS - I am not ignoring your point. I don't understand what point you are making.

My child was good friends in school with one girl whose parents were Nigerian and one who's mother was Jamaican. Apparently they couldn't come to play at any time on the weekend as they were at church all day both Saturday and Sunday.

This could have been a polite way to brush me off because they sensed my evil racist aims in wanting my daughter to be friends with their daughters and they weren't in fact religious at all.

Either way, they didnt want to mix with me or mine. I think that's sad.

Still waiting for someone to tell me why segregation is such a good thing.

Seeker you seem to be fixated on this idea that all those sending their kids to private schools are very well off or those kids are insulated within a world of privilege.

My DCs mix with a variety of kids, some with very rich parents and others living in terraced houses near council flats with parents who have chosen to spend their 'not so disposable income' on education. I have friends who chose not to send their kids to private and certainly have more disposable income than me. And having our kids in private school does not mean we stop them from associating with those 'outside the wall'.

There are also private schools such as those run by the Whitgift foundation where fees are calculated on a sliding scale based on parental income - e.g. a parent on £19k income would only pay £201 for one child and so forth.

And please open your eyes to schools where pupils are selected by 'house prices' to see how exclusion by money really works.

We live in rural West Country and there are very few black and asian families here generally so in that way yes the state schools mirror real local life. I like it that dd has friends from all over the place at her private school but it wasn't the reason I chose it.

And there are many, many SEN children at ds's school, too, Seeker.

In fact, the LA keeps asking them to take children which the local state schools have failed - and offering to pay fees. (These are mostly autistic children). It's not a special school. Just an experienced and caring one.

You can't really mean that only diversity of income counts? (And as I say in many, many 'good' state schools, you don't get that either - catchment house prices, anyone?)

erm as a parent with two kids at private school I would have to say that they are DEFINITELY insulated within a wall of privilege and it would be hideously disengenous to pretend otherwise. All the parents are well off also, very occasionally you get an only child on a scholarship whose parents aren't obviously well off (although of course they may be hugely rich who knows?)

Takingthemickey- I am aware of all of that. I was merely responding to the tired old "oh, private schools are so very diverse" comments.

They are diverse culturally, there is no argument there. They are not diverse socially. They are diverse academically if they are non-selective.

If you are not sending your child to private school for them to enjoy the privileges of lovely facilities and no horrid chair throwing children, what on earth are you spending all that money on?

Utterly disengenous to pretend you are not buying privilege.

The private school I am looking at has a swimming pool and an equestrian centre. No state school in Brixton offered that.