Think Carefully Before Opting for Private Education

[PRMum2012]

i am a mum of two (23 months and 3 in august)I am self-employed, part time and married to a lovely architect. We have a great life and two happy kids.

On paper I would say I have not done too badly with my life and my aim is to work full time as soon as possible now my kids are a bit older. If the work was available I would happily work full time now.

Despite setting up my own business I can't help feeling like a failure that I can't afford for my own children, what my parents did for me.... It annoys me that I put so much importance on it ... I am now passionate about finding a decent local primary school for my children so they don't feel the same pressure i do now, when they are older and looking for schools for their kids ....but i'll be honest ......assuming i can afford it i would try and do it from 11 if i can....!!!!...

Hopefully by then, my kids will have an input too and they will be forming their own opinions on the issue.

Depending on mortgage and family support I can't see that it's possible for anyone with two kids earning under £80,000 - £1000,000 + (as a family income) to afford private education anymore, my advice is unless you have a thriving business or two, work as a dr, lawyer or banker.... Forget it.

It's really hard to watch my younger sibling do it for her kids, they are paying for private prep while we cant afford it.... But it really upsets me I feel like this... why can't I just be happy for them and quietly satisfied that I don't need to pay on top of my taxes for my kids education.

For my own primary education i went privately, tried the local school for secondary education but was bullied so moved back to the private system.... I had a mix of private and state during secondary - my second private school was amazing but the second state school I attended for 6th form (my choice) was great too so why is this all having such an impact on what I want for my own kids.

My DH is much more laid back, he went privately all the way through but doesn't place as much value on it as I do/did....I wish I felt the same way but all I feel now is pressure to earn more money so I can pay for them both from 11.

Nice to see people focusing on definitions of 'good', 'successful' and 'better' [heaves sigh of relief and gets off soap box]

Oh if only society as a whole would do the same thing (see Rabbit's point).

I grew up in a family that was half Oxford academia, half French artist, and I get totally by some of the ideas of 'good' and 'successful' on MN. Not that they're wrong, but they are very different to mine.

Off to tell ensure my son knows that he will not get my approval unless he gets a job with Goldman Sachs.

Spero, only kidding - I understand where you are coming from.

cross post - meant Rabbit's point about practical/creative/technical being too risky or not 'serious' enough, generally.

Spero, I do agree with you and believe at primary school it is easier to keep your child motivated, even in an unfavourable environment or in a school that provides a decent but not fantastic education.

But at secondary school if you are unlucky enough to be in the catchment for a poor school, then you are limiting a child's chances.

This isn't really about snubbing the outstanding secondary school round the corner, but more escaping the amount of schools that really you do have to succeed in spite of. Unfortunately many parents are in this predicament, which is a real shame. Moving is not always an easy option for many people and sometimes it can be even more expensive than sending private!

My experience of the wealthy is the opposite.

IMO some parents who push their income to the limit in order to pay for private wants to see a return in the form of Oxbridge, high flying career etc.

To those who are rich their DCs will inherit money and/or get a job with dad or at dad's mate's PR firm.. As long as their kids don't do drugs and become slackers then they are happy.

I agree that it is a different set of stresses at secondary school level. That's why I moved out of Brixton as I was worried that it wasn't just throwing chairs when they get to 14 but much more serious issues.

But having said that since I left the local secondaries have made great strides.

But what troubled me most in Brixton was the utterly clear cut racial and social divides in the schools. The middle classes either paid over the odds for houses in the nice school catchment area (or rented and then moved back to Clapham) this pricing out anyone who couldn't pay £500k for a three bed terrace or fled to local private schools.

My daughter was the only caucasion child in a class of 30. This did not reflect the wider Brixton community and it should not be happening. When South Africa segregated on grounds of race we were all appalled and called for sanctions. Yet we permit this situation to flourish in our own country.

A the moment I really worry for our children's futures.

Spero - London and sorrounding areas can be dicey. In my London surburb the segregation I see is not by colour but by income/education levels.

The primary/secondary schools which parents try to avoid are full of caucasian kids with high levels of non-working parents. House prices mean that many are priced out of the good catchment area.

At secondary level the only good state option is a super-selective school which does not give preference to kids in the local area.

The private schools are the ones that are mixed by income and colour.

Spero - I'm guessing that the parents of the only black kid in a class of 29 white kids don't find that an issue. So why is it an issue that yours is the only white kid in a class of 29 black kids?

What makes you think the parents of the only black kid in a class of white kids wouldn't find that an issue?

I rather not say.

I would be very surprised if any parents were not concerned by the fact that their local school did not reflect the diversity of the surrounding community and instead appeared to be operating segregation according to race.

Plenty of parents in state and private sector want their children to do the best they can do. I do not push or tutor and I learn as much from the children and they from me but they are in private schools where most work hard and do well and that tends to rub off on children and is no bad thing.

(White flight is a problem in some parts of London (other remain nicely mixed). There is a higher proportion of non white children in private schools than white because immigrants value education more than locals).

It is also the case that a lot of private pupils come from abroad. Fewer and fewer people can afford it at home. Lots of people who had a private education themselves can't afford it for their DCs.

I'm not sure I would want my child to be the only anything in their class.

I would certainly be asking questions if the class did not broadly represent the demographic of the catchment.

Musicalfamily.

We are in the position you are talking about any dc that want to do well are really up against it and unless they are very motivated their chances are slim.
We too can't afford private, well not the normal private schools. Luckily the only remaining school aged, dd is hoping to gain a place at specialist music school. Until then she is H.ed. The primary schools here are lovely but the secondary don't have catchment areas really and cover the whole borough.

I think whether I personally found it an issue to be the only white kid in a class of black kids would depend on the context - I would react differently to that depending on whether I were living in South Africa, Nigeria, Brixton or Guildford. I would be very surprised in Guildford.

Rabbit stew precisely. The point I am making is that Brixton is a racially diverse community. I would walk my daughter to her school from Brixton High Street to school, about hard a mile and we would see a vast variety of people. Yet her school was 95% Afro Caribean. Something is very wrong here.

What lessons do our children learn from segregation? Surely nothing that is any good.

I agree that segregation in london is a serious problem. It is determined by catchment areas and the only solution is a lottery system. It is shameful that we are not tackling this. The sense of rrjection felt by those left behind following the white flight in year 4/5 is very damaging and currently we pretend its not happening.

I think that London has unique problems that you probably don't get in even Birmingham, Manchester etc- you certainly wouldn't get them in places like Devon.

wonder - White Flight is nothing new and you find it in a lot of places outside of London. Plus no one is pretending that it isn't happening.

Can some one explain white flight to me please ? Agree schools should reflect local community. So if you are the only white or black family in your area it is reasonable to expect to be the only white or black or Asian or Muslim child in the class.

TBH the only case of white flight (if thatbeans removing your white child from a certainly school/ area) I have heard of is around tower hamlets due to the other girls starting to wear the Burka a d the patently sexist attitudes shown by the boys from fundamentalist Muslim backgrounds.

White flight is a term that originates in America and describes what happens when the mcs move out of an area as it becomes more deprived. Its actually a nasty term that id rscist in that it assumes that whites are middle class or wealthier than black people. I shouldn'have used it.

exotic - not getting it in places like Birmingham???

I went to Birmingham U decades ago and I still go back to visit local friends. Handsworth has been predominantly black and Asian for a long time. Today White Flight has meant that neighbouring north West Bromwich is now predominantly Asian as well.

There is no 'white flight' from Brixton - the gentrification has finally started - just after I left (coincidence?) a Foxtons and a Starbucks arrived. Now everyone who is not a Russian oligarch is priced out of Clapham it was inevitable as actually a lot of Brixton is really lovely and we were close to Brockwell Park, the lido etc.

Just the white people won't send their children to certain schools.

People may not be pretending segregation doesn't exist but no one seems bothered to do anything or even talk about it as a problem, so they might as well be.

Ok thanks. Never heard it before and live and work in sarf London. (totally out of touch).