Think Carefully Before Opting for Private Education

[PRMum2012]

i am a mum of two (23 months and 3 in august)I am self-employed, part time and married to a lovely architect. We have a great life and two happy kids.

On paper I would say I have not done too badly with my life and my aim is to work full time as soon as possible now my kids are a bit older. If the work was available I would happily work full time now.

Despite setting up my own business I can't help feeling like a failure that I can't afford for my own children, what my parents did for me.... It annoys me that I put so much importance on it ... I am now passionate about finding a decent local primary school for my children so they don't feel the same pressure i do now, when they are older and looking for schools for their kids ....but i'll be honest ......assuming i can afford it i would try and do it from 11 if i can....!!!!...

Hopefully by then, my kids will have an input too and they will be forming their own opinions on the issue.

Depending on mortgage and family support I can't see that it's possible for anyone with two kids earning under £80,000 - £1000,000 + (as a family income) to afford private education anymore, my advice is unless you have a thriving business or two, work as a dr, lawyer or banker.... Forget it.

It's really hard to watch my younger sibling do it for her kids, they are paying for private prep while we cant afford it.... But it really upsets me I feel like this... why can't I just be happy for them and quietly satisfied that I don't need to pay on top of my taxes for my kids education.

For my own primary education i went privately, tried the local school for secondary education but was bullied so moved back to the private system.... I had a mix of private and state during secondary - my second private school was amazing but the second state school I attended for 6th form (my choice) was great too so why is this all having such an impact on what I want for my own kids.

My DH is much more laid back, he went privately all the way through but doesn't place as much value on it as I do/did....I wish I felt the same way but all I feel now is pressure to earn more money so I can pay for them both from 11.

bella65, but they have proved they will travel.
Am actually speaking from my own limited experience.
A DD partly got employed because it was obvious from another job, that she was more than willing to travel at the drop of a hat.

Sorry dogs but I can only disagree from my own experience.
I don't think whether you lived overseas to do your degree has any bearing on job offers at all re. ability to do business travel. You are offered a job on the basis of your ability to do the job- not on your ability to get on a plane and travel to another office.

"they are also proving that they would travel for work. Which makes them more appealing to future employers."
"Sorry dogs but I can only disagree from my own experience."
bella I wonder in a competitive job market if studying abroad makes you stand out from the crowd? It also shows adaptability hopefully tolerance of difference and maybe self sufficiency, the ability not to follow the crowd down the conventional road, and possibly if looking at Europe learn or become fluent in another language. These things are things a prospective employer might see as positive attributes. My DH finds his staff risk averse and parochial graduates and non graduates many have never left the county and on a trip up to "Londern" (remember we are Hot Fuzz) "can't wait to get back to the security of Parochialtownsville where most live."

Flatmum, with 100,000 pa you can send two children to private school and eat organic chicken. Believe me, YOU CAN. Try asking for financial help from a private school while on that salary and see what they say.
A different matter is do you really want to. And that's a personal decision.

I must agree with Happy and Dogs re doing your degree in another country. Its shows that you are not sticking to what you know and moving to another country is a great talking point at interview and does make you stand out.

hardboiled sorry I meant the family income we are all insisting MTS has :) not the upper of the range he says he had. But I have 3 dc and a large mortgage - I don't think we could do private secondary for all three. I am also not convinced of the value of spending our mortgage again on private secondary. They all come out with comparable GCSEs, A levels and university offers around here as far as I can see. Not to mention the weighting on the UCAS form against private schools. Seems to me that a reasonable comp and a combination of parental supports / turtoring if necessary may be the way to go unless you live in an area with truly horrendous secondary schools.

The only thing that seems different to me is the chance of getting into Oxbridge is possibly increased still from independents. Having been to one of them I am not that bothered for my dc tbh.

Happy- I suppose it all depends on where the degree was done, and why.
The other point is that many teens still do gap years- sometimes a few months working in lots of different places- which adds to their CVs.
Each of my DCs are graduates and both were offered jobs on the level of their degrees ( most companies want a 1st or a 2;1) the unis they went to (UK) and their ability to do the job. DH recruits for his company and TBH I don't think that a degree gained overseas would have any bearing on his choice of graduate.

Flatmum, yes I agree, three children to private ed on 80,000 would be quite impossible...your comparison about similar GCSEs and a levels results doesn't apply to my area unfortunately...

Why are we assuming MTS is a he? He does the family shopping, cooks, plans the menus, knows what's for dinner today and tomorrow...

thats not what I meant again re: figures but doesn't matter, its still a hell of a lot of money for 3 dc

Are you sure about the exam stats? Remember the average doesnt matter - it is bound to be lower in state schools because there will be more kids there whose parents dont give much of a damna nd don't encourage / support / push them. No one is going to fork out an arm and a leg for private education and then just let their kids arse about. the average doesnt matter the potential to do well does. So for example my local state school is nothing special in terms of results and league tables. But this year one girl got 17 A at GCSE, 1 boy got 11 A, 1 boy got 10 A* and an A etc. So the potentila to do well is there. That would do me. As I would support them, help them tutor them if necessary.

There is also a hell of a lot of massaging of figures that goes on - that the independents are able to do wheras the state schools can't. For example our local independent secondary a) refuses to enter weaker candidates for exams (assuming they have survived being weeded out by that stage) and b) enters borderline candidates and those for subjects that don't reflect well at the local 6th form college instead (so it shows up on their stats not the private school's).

Anyway - what do I know, who knows what's right, my dc are still in primary school so I could be proved wrong. I just question the automatic assumption that private secondary is ALWAYS going to be better or is definitely worth the financial outlay. It makes me laugh the number of parents at my dc prep school that just have never considered any other option or the value of it and are happy to take all their parents spare cash to pay for it.

But I have 3 dc and a large mortgage

Surely, housing costs is the one major variable that needs to be taken in to account in this. Despite all the hilarity, I doubt whether buying cheap imported battery chicken from Costco or free-range chicken from Waitrose will make any difference to people's ability to afford or not afford private education.

Hardboiled I think many moons back 'he' referred to his 'partner' as a 'she' - but could be wrong. Whoever 'he' is they haven't corrected the assumption they are male.

I buy my free range chicken from aldi @ £4.99

Exactly Cecily- and don't forget council tax and water rates which add an awful lot to most people's monthly outgoings.

Private secondary is not always better. A lot depends on your child's ability. A child who is 'average' will IME sometimes do better in a private school because of more individual attention AND parental expectation- that is a key factor often overlooked.

You cannot go solely by exam results because many private schools have admission exams so only the average and brighter kids are taking the exams in the first place.

But really, exam results are only one reason why some parents choose private ed- often it's for social reasons such as a child feeling happier in a smaller school, or there being sports available, or emphasis on some subjects which the child excels at.

Dutch, so in a completely different system. You might find our perspective interesting, even though your system works completely different!

In the Netherlands, we have a few private schools. The kids that go there, usually can't make it in the regular/state system. Here, your final grade is made up 50-50 from your school grades over the past 1-2 years and your grade for the national/central exams. Usually, "private school grades" and national grades have a much wider gap than "state school grades" and the national grades. There is therefore an ongoing discussion about the quality of private schools. I work at a university and my colleagues and I are always a bit about privately educated kids.

As I said, a completely mirrored system! :-)

bella I thinit's true that exam results are only one of many reasons parents send their DC private.

For many of us the value of it lies not in a rsw comparrison of exam results.

Similarly, I wouldn't consdier a degree from a US university only worth it if it gained something tangible for my DC in the job market. Too utilitarian for my tatstes. I think somehting is worth it if the expereinceitself has been enjoyable/challening/horizon broadening or whatever.

"There is also a hell of a lot of massaging of figures that goes on - that the independents are able to do wheras the state schools can't. For example our local independent secondary a) refuses to enter weaker candidates for exams."
Flatmum dont delude yourself I met two teachers whist walking my dogs both from a good comp. in Slightlylargertownsville 15 miles up the rod from me. Borderline pupils for Eng. Lang GCSE were not being entered in for it this year and they'd only been told two weeks ago that they'd been withdrawn and had completed all the course work etc. This was so as not to spoil there results/position in league tables etc.

There is massaging of figures in both sectors. That much is absolutley certain.

I wouldn't mind a massage.

I kile an Indian head Massage. Very relaxing. Bit leaves your hair a bit greasy.

Our family income falls into the middle of the OP's £80-£100k band and we privately educate our two DCs. If we were right on the bottom of the range then things would be tight. As it is, we have a comfortable family life.

Our outgoings are pretty much standard ie mortgage, insurance, council tax, petrol etc. No, I am not going to detail the amounts because, judging from the above, people are just looking to pick things apart just to prove that we really can't afford private and are either in denial or just plain bullshitting.

What I will say is that both DW and I have seen a lot of the world as singletons and what we still want to see aren't places we want to go to with two young uns in tow. Consequently the kids go abroad with the school while family holidays are UK based. £30k for fees, trips and after school activities. Mortgage is £950. We save enough for burst pipes and such emergencies but that is about it. Its not really an issue because we will be mortgage free by the time the kids leave home. Plus we have then have the option to downsize and pocket the left over cash. As Forrest Gump would say, thats all I have to say about that.

If you have a large mortgage compared to some or you pay way too much for fruit or insurance or drink 22 pints of milk pw :) and you just scrape in at £80k then of course things are going to be very very tight indeed. But that wasn't the OP. Based on our IMO reasonable outgoings, we can afford private for two DCs on the stated income and still have a comfortable family life.

That aside, some people on this thread are coming across as being very judgy pants (is that the right expression?). Apparently if you don't take your kids on lots of foreign holidays and eat out a lot then you are depriving them of valuable experiences. I expect these opinions from my fellow private parents but not from people who seem to be so scathing about those who go private. I don't think that I would get very far if I use that as justification for going private.

Yes I'm sure it happens in all schools. I was under the impression it is much easier in independents, but maybe not. is yet another reason why I don't think results tables should be the only criteria for judging the worth o a school or, indeed, an education system.

Oh, always plenty of judgy pants on both sides

"There's no particular magic about US unis except for the Ivy leaguers ... Other than that, nothing you can't get over here"

University of Hawaii or some Brit university in some sleepy market town. I know which one I would choose.